It should have been just a great football match. For the casual observer it had a bit of everything: incredible goals on both ends of the pitch, wild countering attacks, and no-nonsense physical play wit the referee refusing to inject himself in the game. But in the end, the spectacle was spoiled by fan violence as Montpellier supporters hurled missiles at the players, severely injuring Marseille’s Roniger.
Olympique Marseille have had quite the summer. In fact, French football has had quite the summer. Last year the television deals for Ligue Un – which looked too good to be true when they were signed – turned out, in fact, to be too good to be true. Broadcasters went bankrupt, leaving French football without anyone to carry the matches. Amazon Prime stepped in and bought the rights for a fraction of the previous deal, but despite this last minute reprieve, the gap in income from TV plus the drop in income due to the pandemic has left many teams with untenable debts.
But despite the dour financial environment, Olympique Marseille have managed to find some money to rebuild their squad. As Philippe Auclair put it on the Guardian pod last week “no one knows where they are getting the money from” but they have spent, that much is true.
According to Transfermarkt, OM spent $27m on Gerson, $12m on Balerdi, $5m on Luan Peres, and $3m on Konrad de la Fuente from Barcelona. Cengiz Under was also brought in but the details of whether that is a transfer for $9m or a loan are unclear. You will also recognize a few other names they added to the roster this year: Matteo Guendouzi on loan (with something like an obligation to buy at the end of the season) and William Saliba on loan, both from the Arsenal. I’ll admit that I was cruising through my TV listings when I saw Montpellier v. Marseille and it was because of the two Arsenal men that I stopped to watch. I’m glad that I did.
From kickoff the match was played at 100mph (161kmph). Montpellier have a reputation as a tough team and they certainly lived up to that reputation. Aerial duels were contested strongly but fairly. Players were tackled hard but again fair. The referee kept a close watch on everything but perhaps due to the new regulations about letting play flow he chose not to dish out a bunch of yellow cards or even call as many fouls as I would expect.
This is something you, dear reader, should prepare yourself for next season: the officials have been told to stop giving a foul for every little bit of contact and they aren’t supposed to give penalties for a player going down and then kicking out at the defender to draw contact. They have also made it illegal for a player to “make a back” or as we say in America “undercut” during an aerial challenge. Though since that’s the England captain Harry Kane’s signature move I’ll believe it’s been outlawed when I see him called for it. I’d put money that the refs give a yellow card early in the season to someone like Lacazette and then everyone will say “that’s been solved” and Kane goes on to keep getting away with it.
But in this match the official (Jeremie Pignard) kept his whistle to himself for the most part, giving just 1 yellow card in the entire match and denying penalties several times. For those who are obsessed with “consistency” he was that in my mind, consistently just letting play go on. This resulted in a moment where the Marseille LCB – Luan Peres – was turned by Montpellier’s Laborde, Peres looked to the official, complaining that Laborde had used his arm to pin the defender, and wanted play stopped but the official did nothing, nearly leading to a goal.
The Marseille defenders were put under a ton of pressure early on. Arsenal player William Saliba did well to handle the physical and mental pressure from Montpellier. There were a few moments where he swiped at a clearance or nearly got caught on the ball but nothing shocking from the Frenchman.
Despite seeming to handle the early pressure, the first goal went to Montpellier. Andy Delort was left mostly unmarked but in a wide and deep position. He put in a cross that should have been dealt with by one of Balerdi or Peres but instead the ball dropped right on the edge of the 6 and Luan Peres accidentally shinned the ball into the back of the net.
Marseille came back and had a great chance from a corner. Dimitri Payet is one of the world’s premier set piece players and he whipped in a corner to the near post which surprisingly, Matteo Guendouzi got a head on to flick to the far post. William Saliba was the man closest to the ball but the flick on was too fast and by the time he got a head on it the only direction he was able to put on the ball was outside the net.
But Marseille seemed to be in control at this point and the Montpellier keeper, Dimitry Bertaud, was doing an excellent job claiming every cross and stopping every shot. And that’s when Gaetan Laborde scored an absurd goal.
We’ve all been there or even done that when a player seems to be putting in a cross and it accidentally goes in the goal. Now, I’m not sure what was going through Laborde’s head at the moment he struck the ball but if it was intentional, it was the single most accurate, perfect strike ever. He was on the far corner of the 18 yard box and clipped in a shot/cross which literally hit the inside corner woodwork.
Laborde claimed the goal was intentional (he’d also tried to claim Luan Peres’ OG earlier, so) but I have my doubts as there was a man on the far post.
From there Montpellier just looked to spoil the game. Marseille tried to get back into the flow but between the physical play of Montpellier and mistakes by Guendouzi and others in midfield it seems to be tough going for OM. The bright players were Cengiz Under and the American Konrad de la Fuente.
After the break OM manager Jorge Sampaoli – who always looks so angry that it’s like he’s ready to split a baby in half over his head and drink its blood – yanked Gerson and put on Benedetto. Gerson had been anonymous all match, and probably wasn’t helped much by the extremely odd positions that Matteo Guendouzi kept appearing in. Arsenal fans who have watched Guendouzi over the years have often complained about his positional misbehavior. It’s not indiscipline, he intentionally takes up very strange positions for a midfielder, not just getting forward but often getting into wide areas where he doesn’t belong and isn’t helping his teammates. Here against Montpellier Guendouzi was hitting all the classics and even trying out some new improvisations.
The thing about Guendouzi is that he’s playing for Jorge Sampaoli who is a bit of a wild-eyed attacking coach. So what Guendouzi is doing here is what Sampaoli wants him to do. And while Guendouzi literally had zero defensive stats (for real, he only even attempted and failed at one tackle) he has Pape Gueye and Boubacar Kamara covering for him in the defensive midfield role. Plus, Sampaoli was playing a back three, which in theory is should provide good defensive cover. But for those of us who are more used to midfielders taking up traditional midfield roles, Guendouzi was often difficult to watch in this match.
Oh, and I also forgot to mention that Sampaoli lined up with a back three, and then 4 central midfielders (Gueye, Kamara, Guendouzi, and Gerson). There were no “wingbacks” in this back three system. So, that also helps explain why Guendouzi was playing in some very strange positions.
Despite Sampaoli’s odd formation, the stars of the show for Marseille were Cengiz Under, Dimitri Payet, and Konrad de la Fuente. When Marseille managed to break the Montpellier press, the ball was often funneled out to one of Under or Konrad. Then both of these players used their superior dribbling skills to break down the Montpellier defensive wall. Time and again, both players got free from their marker but just couldn’t quite get the right final ball. Under in particular struggled with his decision making, often beating the shoes off his defender and then just tapping a bad pass into space or directly to another Montpellier man. He was tough to watch because he got the ball so often and got into good spaces so often but then just went blank at the last moment.
Konrad on the other hand, didn’t. Konrad beat his man time and again as well – especially in the 2nd half – and it was one of those times that he was able to put in the poison cross. That’s the kind of cross which flashes across the six yard box on the ground. If the keeper doesn’t claim it, then it’s almost certainly going to result in a goal. Either through an own goal as a defender tries to clear it or a forward will just tap it in. That’s exactly what happened and Under got a goal to get the visitors back into the game.
A few minutes later, the ref did call a foul – when a Montpellier player literally kicked a Marseille man in the shins – and the ball was set up in perfect position for Payet to score. Payet was known as a deadly free kick taker when he was at West Ham, scoring 5 times on 40 DFKs in his last two seasons with the Hammers. But up till yesterday, he’d gone 0/42 on DFKs and his technique looked a bit shaky on both kicks against Montpellier as well. Instead of aiming to get the ball up and down, Payet was aiming for gaps in the wall, between players. Both times his kick got through (the first was saved) but in the real world those free kicks are blocked. In the fake world of this game, they weren’t. The Montpellier keeper lost his rag at the wall when the second got through and scored. It was a moment of weakness from Junior Sambia who turned his back right as the kick came at him, creating the gap for Payet.
The third goal by Payet was worthy of a winner in any match, much less a 2-0 comeback win. Payet collected a simple pass from Gueye and drove at the Montpellier defense. Their legs must have been aching after 79 minutes of tough running and defending, but Payet didn’t really burn anyone as they managed to keep touch tight. But he weaved in and out, bounced a foolish tackle off his back, and when Montpellier’s Thuler didn’t close quick enough, Payet shot with the shortest backlift I’ve seen since Andrei Arshavin, and placed the ball into the corner of the goal.
It’s been a long time since fans have been allowed inside the stadiums in France and perhaps they too aren’t quite in full season form. As Payet celebrated his goal with his teammates someone in the stands threw a bottle down into the crowd of Marseille players and struck Valentin Roniger in the mouth, bloodying his face and requiring treatment.
The official probably should have stopped play then and there but it was decided that they would make an announcement and warn the fans that anyone caught throwing things would be ejected and that the match could be suspended. It didn’t help. A few minutes later OM were taking a corner in the area near the Montpellier “Ultras” and a water bottle struck Matteo Guendouzi. Guendouzi isn’t one to pass up an opportunity, so he picked the bottle up, showed it to the fans, and dumped the water out. When he turned his back, more bottles landed on the pitch. At that point the official stopped the match.
The players were confused as to what to do next and mainly stood around on the pitch for a few minutes before being told that they needed to go to the locker rooms. The Montpellier chairman (I think, it was an old rich guy) got on the microphone and pleaded with the home fans to stop throwing things. The players went into the locker room. Things calmed down. The game was resumed but from that point on it was mostly academic.
For Arsenal fans there were no answers to the burning questions. William Saliba looks pretty good though he is still very raw and seems to slash at clearances when he’s under pressure. But that’s to be expected from a 20 year old. He was also involved in some nifty forward play at one point, carrying the ball up the pitch and dumping it off for what should have been a shot.
Matteo Guendouzi looks the same as he’s ever been. On the pitch, he’s probably going to enjoy his wild role in the Sampaoli midfield. Off the pitch, he probably shouldn’t have wound the opposition crowd up. But I’m not going to blame him for the fan violence. I can kind of understand why he did it. I’d be angry if people threw full water bottles at me.
Matches are live on BeIn sports this season (for now!) in the USA.
That’s football for you. The good, the bad, the stunning and the very ugly. That’s why we watch! Nobody would condone throwing bottles but it sure makes for a topic of conversation. It’s also a time honored football tradition. I saw a vintage news report of Arsenal taking on Rangers in PRESEASON (circa 1970) where the traveling Rangers fans decided to throw bottles (probably glass) after they were losing 2-0 on account of a perceived lack of fight from their team. The match report mentions this in passing and that the bottles had to be collected by the players and deposited in a box beside the Rangers goal before the match could resume. Different times.
There’s a reassuring constancy to things on 7AM recently. Arsenal still don’t function well as an attacking unit without Martin Odegaard, William Saliba still looks like the 20 year old CB he is, and Guendouzi is still doing his honey badger impression, leaving us guessing which 10 year old is secretly controlling him on his Playstation, unbeknownst to the world.
TIM: “William Saliba looks pretty good though he is still very raw and seems to slash at clearances when he’s under pressure. But that’s to be expected from a 20 year old. He was also involved in some nifty forward play at one point, carrying the ball up the pitch and dumping it off for what should have been a shot.”
Thanks for the snippet. Lucky you, getting to see the kid play. I doubt that anyone else in this community has, beyond YouTube highlights. I’ll definitely be watching Marseilles games if I can.
One day, when when the decision to promote Arteta beyond his experience and capacity is a memory, we’ll find answers to the question of why this young man couldnt get as much as pre-season friendly with Arsenal in 2 years…
…. and yet he walks into a team that is stronger than Arsenal’s and is playing European football
…. and yet he plays first XI football for Nice after 6 months no competitive games at Arsenal
… and yet he gets selected for the France Olympic squad.
See a pattern, or do you need Lasik surgery? 🙂
Of course he’s a good player. He’d been touted as something special long before we paid a trucktonne for him. It’s the manager I have my doubts about, not the player.
Guen emptied a bottle of water. It’s not like he mooned them. And tell you what… he’s miles better than Elneny, who to judge from how much he’s been played this pre-season, looks a good bet to start against Brentford.
“Guen emptied a bottle of water. It’s not like he mooned them.”
Pretty sure provocation of any kind was going to light that fuse– and elicit the response given from ‘Ultra’ fans in that situation. Guendouzi is petulant. I don’t hold it against him. Just don’t want him back at Arsenal. Not going to get worked up over a player no one is offering more than £9M for. Many have tried– so if Sampaoli manages to spin Matteo from hay-into-gold– he’ll be the first.
Oh he’s not coming back, and no one in this discussion said they want him back. He’s a hothead (Ive called him a dickhead before), but let’s keep this incident in perspective, shall we.
His coming back to Arsenal is not really the point, but why would he? He’ll be starting European football games for Marseilles. Who intentionally seeks a demotion?
To Ingunnables (below), Arteta’s favouritism is obvious. He stubbornly persisted with Willian for a long stretch of last season when it was clear that it wasn’t working, and we were losing games for fun. Perhaps someone can explain his absolute devotion to playing the error-prone Elneny this pre-season.
I saw Payet et al play in the Summer of 2019 when DC United hosted them for a friendly. It was 1-1 at the half then Marseille dropped 6 on the MLS team in the second half. One former EPL star attacker absolutely ran the show that night and, guess what, his name was not Rooney.
Imagine playing football and the crowd throws fucking water bottles at you FFS
I believe that a person’s default setting in life should be respectful. Its part of the spirit of ubuntu. Show respect and expect respect in return.
In the same spirit, the instigation of trouble is looked down up, and those who instigate are not offered any leniency in judgement.
With Matteo, I keep hearing about how he is petulant. I respect the kid because he does not start trouble, but will give back whatever he gets. Especially if its over the top, like bottles being thrown at him and players trying to hurt his teammates. He reflects the energy brought to him or his teammates.
Do I think he should have better control of his emotions? Yes. Do I think any of his reactions are unwarranted? No. I am still to see him be the cause of trouble, unless I missed something.
At the end of the day, we are all human beings. Even if we expect players to take physicality and criticism on the chin, but dangerous challenges and bottles thrown on the pitch are too far to call his reactions petulant or basically taking opportunities to create conflicts.
Thanks for this post Tim, I’ve been interested in catching a few Saliba games just to try to gain some sort of informed view. There is so much noise around this kid, every single Arsenal fan seems to have an opinion. Are they all watching French football? Fair play if they are but personally Saliba is a bit of a blank profile picture to me.
Obviously my hopes are that he comes back eventually and is amazing. My concerns are that he’s back in Ligue 1, playing back 3 in an unusual system. Level of opposition isn’t the worry, it’s the missed opportunity for acclimation, to the English game, the Arsenal culture and our style of play. Arteta may be described as a lot of things but wild-eyed attacking coach he is not.
That the kid pushed hard to return to France also tells us something but I’m not sure what.
Ultimately my fear is that we’ve chucked 28m on a guy that we’ll loan for 3 seasons then ditch at a loss, potentially harming our image to other young hopefuls in the process. I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but if there was something dodgy in this deal then Saliba probably doesn’t even get to have an Arsenal career. Similarly it seems apparent the Arteta has his favourites, it’s not unreasonable to assume he has…let’s call them ‘anti-favourties’. And maybe then Saliba only gets his chance if Arteta tanks the season and is gone by the time he gets back.
Perhaps the Saliba question is simpler to understand and Saliba said something to Arteta for which he will never be forgiven.
Who is to say that that is not what happened with Ozil and some of the other exiles.
Whatever the truth, it is not likely to be a footballing one.
Why Arteta has been allowed to do what he has done and doing is beyond me.
Why owners of the club should happily stand by and watch their investment, which had been increasing very nicely in value during the Wenger years, disintegrate before their very eyes and do nothing, is a mystery to me
Have they been sold the idea that Arteta will be creating a new Man$ity?
Dream on,
i can’t appreciate the shade directed at guendouzi. considering his age, talent, price, and appetite for the big moment, i thought he was a great acquisition. in fairness, he’s only just turned 22 and is playing for his 6th manager in 2 years so he deserves a break. the fact that he’s been given a low shirt number and is a starter at marseille after being there less than a month is a credit to him; he did the same at hertha and arsenal.
i don’t have a problem with guendouzi emptying a water bottle that’s hurled at him from a distance, as that could have struck his head or face and proved a significant injury; it has nothing to do with football. i don’t have a problem with him standing up to his fellow frenchman in defense of his team mate. sure, he’s done some silly things, which is the nature of young men. however, i don’t recall ever seeing him do anything unreasonable for a young man who’s competing.
the bayern manager said that management is 15% tactics and 85% personality management. you need experience getting the most out of what you have to be considered a good manager. any idiot can isolate a player or fire them. arteta’s handling of guendouzi and saliba suggest a man incapable of getting good value from talented young players unless he likes them. saliba was worth nearly £30 million. how much is he worth now, based on arteta’s management? guendouzi’s value was approaching £40 million when arteta arrived. now, arsenal are just hoping to recoup the £7 million they paid for him. disgraceful.
i was thinking, if arteta was alexis’ manager when he was on top of his game, arteta would likely have failed to get the most of his talents. arteta would fail by trying to over-coach the player. i don’t think arteta can manage brilliant players. he’s got to learn to put the playstation controller down and let the players do what they do.
A while ago, back, when Arteta was linked to us, I was talking to a City fan I work with. He told me about the time the Spaniard took charge of a CL game when Pep was serving a touchline ban and he said Arteta looked like a “rabbit in the headlights”.
I dismissed it at the time, everyone can get an attack of nerves, especially on your first go around, and I’ve seen no evidence of fear in him since. But maybe fear manifests in a different way, maybe in a need to control everything. Guendouzi seemed ungovernable to me, on the pitch and off it, the complete opposite of what a controlling manager would want. And I’m comfortable with the decision to get rid in this case.
But more generally speaking I’ve found the handling of certain players concerning. It was a brave decision to sit Auba for being late. And because we won the match his decision was seen to pay off.
I don’t think it has.
Months on Auba still does not look right. Now it could be that lingering health issues, both physical and emotional are the cause, but maybe it’s something else. The wage bill tells us Auba is the jewel in the crown so was it smart to make an example of him? Man management is like any other human relationship, it can break down, sometimes irrevocably.
And sure, Auba may never be late again but how many goals and money will that particular non-negotiable cost us?
Great post Tim sounds like a great game to watch.
Regarding Guendouzi. In the last 3 seasons he has made 82 appearances and played 5800 league minutes and scored only 2 goals and created only 2 total assists. In his 2 seasons with Arsenal made 59 appearances and played 3892 minutes and scored 0 goals and had only 1 assist. Let those numbers sink in for a minute. He played with Auba who at the time was one of the most prolific strikers in Europe. For as often as Guendouzi touched the ball and as many passes as he made, he should have had far more production just by accident. I think we have all accepted that his positional sense is not very good and he is not a very good defensive player. Bottom line is you can’t rely on him as one of your defensive minded holding midfielders and you certainly can’t use him as an attacking mid because you can’t waste one of your attacking positions on the pitch for someone who brings absolutely zero end product. Where do you expect the manager to play him?
Guen was not an attacking midfielder. Not saying he was the second coming of Kante or Casemiro, but your citing his goals and assists (without deep midfielder stats) is misleading. Do you wish to fill in the blanks?
You know we’re not talking about Ozil, Fabregas or Odegaard, right? This is as pointless as counting goals and assists for Xhaka or Partey. I dont have the time to look up Xhaka’s, but I think you’ll find that he didnt exactly kill it on goals and assists either. He’s not supposed to, mind. That’s not his role.
That thing you assert that “we have all accepted?” Not so fast, bud.
He played all those minutes because Emery (and a lot us who watched him), considered him a good but raw presence in the engine room. He was not the finished product but he looked a real baller for his age. He’s the age of my kid, ferchrissakes. On value, demonstrated talent and not yet realised ceiling, he is precisely the kind of player a good coach would coach up. Josh is right. We’ve managed him (and others) stupidly.
Unlike you, Im not going to write off a 21 year old who has played for the France senior team. As for his attitude, anyone who thinks that at his age someone is irredeemable, hopefully never parented anyone.
Josh again… you cant only be prepared to coach blokes that you like. Arsene had Bendtner, Song, Van Persie and Adebayor in. the same squad. None of them likely would have lasted a season with Mikel.
And speaking of goals from midfielders, Bill, curious to hear how you feel about selling Joe Willock, when none of our midfielders have shown they have that capability?
Judging by last season and pre-season Joe looks like he is ready to explode. Physically he now looks every bit the Premiership midfielder and confidence wise he looks bolstered too. What he would have given our midfield is a skillset and an intent it doesn’t have, the desire above all else to drive toward the box, with or without the ball and take shots. I watched him a lot for the mags, he is extremely direct, as soon as they won the ball he’s off. Perfect for a countering team.
By contrast Elneny looks ready to implode. When your only contribution is ball security and tactical discipline you need to be 100% reliable because you offer nothing else. My guess is he is playing because he’s going to start the season and the options are limited, though Lokonga is doing his best to show he can be trusted. Technically Torreira is still an Arsenal player but he’s another that seems pretty much unusable at this point.
So I’m disappointed, but I get it. We need money and are struggling to make any other deals happen. Joe doesn’t quite fit the profile of someone Arteta thinks he wants. So we’re doing the deal that’s expedient (sounds familiar) and hoping that we don’t regret it later (Emi). If it’s the windfall that lets us strengthen elsewhere then so be it.
And as for favourites, remember Willian broke covid protocols to fly off to Dubai and escaped without getting dropped or a public dressing down. He played 1892 minutes last season, all at the cost of Pepe and finishing Reiss for good.
Now imagine those minutes going to Pepe, Martinelli and Nelson.
Now also imagine his reported £192K a week salary going to somebody actually worth that sum.
What seems likely to me is that as manager he has tried to inculcate a certain culture of ‘non-negotiables’ and ‘this is the way that we’ll live’, of training hard, professional conduct and getting to work early. So he tends to favour people that buy into it, and marginalise those that don’t. It’s a method, not necessarily a bad one. You just wonder whether he has the man management skills and the leadership qualities to pull it off.
Plus I don’t know if any of y’all have ever tried to drive in central London? Especially when there’s roadworks. Trust me you’re best off parking the Lambo at the nearest tube station and taking the Piccadilly line.
MikEdu have lost the plot.
Sell Xhaka! Nope, we changed our mind. Pull the plug because Roma is $5 short, but give the man a $15 commitment.
On Torreira, other players he wants/wanted to get rid of (Nelson, AMN, Willock, Kola, Eddie) played pre-season games. And why not? They are still Arsenal players. We cant use the excuse that he’s focusing only on players sure to be part of the next campaign.
Torreira? Deep-sixed, presumably because of that embarrassing public disagreement around wanting to join Boca. Not only is he still an Arsenal player… his potential suitors get to see him regain some match sharpness. How much are Arsenal going to get for a player who spent most of last season on Atleti’s bench, and hasnt played one minute of pre-season.
On the bright side, Sambi looks an excellent acquisition by MikEdu. With Partey injured, I’d throw him in from Game 1 instead of Elneny. White also looked good against Spurs, playing in the David Luiz “bring it out from the back” role. Much not to like, but let’s give Jack his jacket where it’s deserved.
The Xhaka thing is yet another expediency. There was a theory going round last season that Arteta wanted to transform the side by pushing everything 10 yards up the pitch, creating offensive pressure by compressing play into the opponent’s half. To do it you need mobile, front footed defenders and tireless midfielders. The higher line means you cannot be lax in preventing the through ball or the ball over the top, as was evident in preseason.
Mooted replacements Neves, Guimarães, Locatelli – all are capable of controlling tempo, taking possession in small spaces and carrying the ball. All offer most of what Xhaka offers and more besides, all are more mobile than the Swiss.
Re-signing Xhaka, who wants time, space, and deep low pressure positions locks us into a style of play, or rather a certain area of the pitch. Xhaka doesn’t want, probably wisely, to get too far forward or vacate his little passing pocket because he doesn’t want to get into a footrace. In those situations he tends to opt for the clumsy foul instead.
i think arsenal agreed to let xhaka go after the euros but i don’t think arteta ever wanted to sell xhaka, so i don’t think anyone changed their minds. arteta loves xhaka and played him every game so, prophetically, he showed no appetite to haggle with roma over £2 million. the price was set and roma tried to call an arsenal bluff that was never there. in fairness, neither would i. the idea of selling xhaka for less than half of what arsenal paid for him when he’s still only 28 and entering his prime is stupid. and no, i’m not looking for a better word than stupid to describe it. xhaka has at least 3 more good years in him.
likewise, you could argue that xhaka has finally got someone to play with in midfield, after playing with a 19-year old guendouzi, an ill-suited torreira, and bomb-forward ramsey. alongside partey and even young sambi, xhaka looks every part a premier league center mid.
Guendouzi runs around a lot, plays with energy and passion, touches the ball alot and clearly has some technical skill and he looks fabulous with that great head of hair. However he has demonstrated very little ability to turn the eye catching panache into effective play on either end of the pitch.
That’s pub talk, man. Do better. This is 7amkickoff. Im in awe of the level here.
guendouzi is young, talented, and unafraid of the big moment. all the rest can be developed with proper coaching and experience so i don’t see your point. the kid walked into the arsenal midfield at 19. besides fabregas and vieira, who else has done that? he’s also walked into the hertha and marseille side. six coaches in 3 different leagues have played this kid in the last two years. he’s not the finished article but still a special young player.
Reports this morning that Martin Odegaard is returning to Arsenal permanently.
Something I’d felt strongly about back in June would likely occur– All things considered at Real.
hope this is true. i prefer him to madison and aouar. what he was able to do in only half a season, despite an injury, was very good. he’s not a brilliant as mesut but close enough and does a better shift defensively. if arsenal could get him for £35 million, that would be a steal. i just hope no one comes in instigating a bidding war.
he should be the arsenal #10 with smith rowe as the #11 but whatever. his inclusion will make arsenal’s attack markedly improved. we’ll see how it all works out.
i wonder what the club plan to do about the lacazette situation. i mentioned to tim about a year ago that arsenal needed to extend lacazette before the end of 2020 as it would be too difficult to replace him. now that he’s in the last year of his contract, he’s not going to accept a move away before his contract ends. likewise, he wont’ extend with arsenal unless they offer him money in the £250k per week range to compete with other teams. if they’d extended him last year, they could have put him on £200k a week for two years with the option of a third. now, who knows? if he gets 30 starts in the league, he’ll get 20 goals and teams will be interested in a free agent center forward capable of that. we’ll see.
Josh
How many dozens and dozens and dozens of times have we heard that our players with proper coaching will develop the ability to produce end product as they mature and how many have actually done what we hoped? The correct answer is almost none. We have a huge sample size of data and we can’t just ignore what that data tells us because it does not fit with what we want to believe. If talented players eventually develop those skills with proper coaching then we have to assume that the coaching during the Wenger era was improper and I don’t accept that idea. I think the reality is the vast majority of players have a ceiling they never break thru.
truthfully, i’ve not heard that there were lots of arsenal players who just needed the proper coaching to be great. we’ve seen guys with bags of talent fail but that’s seldom down to a lack of coaching.
likewise, i’d be the first to say that arsene wenger isn’t necessarily known for improving players. i’d declare he’s rather known for giving young players with the desire to be great an opportunity to showcase their greatness. i would also say he’s a scary-good judge of talent.
a more appropriate question would be how many 19-year olds have walked into the arsenal first team to be premier league regulars. that is a mighty short list and matteo guendouzi is on it.
The biggest problem with waiting for a player to develop a specific skill such as producing “end product” is the time we lose while we wait for it to happen when the reality is that the data clearly indicates the break thru never comes in a vast majority of players but we don’t find out for 3-4 years.
Claude. It may be pub talk but if its accurate then so be it.
Guendouzi runs around a lot and has nice hair?
Come on, man. The thoughtfulness of 7am contributors — even the ones we disagree with — is high. That’s what makes this the best blog and the most enjoyable community to be a part of.
Guendouzi runs around a lot and has nice hair?
Do better, Bill..
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Josh and JW1, Im loving me some Odegaard for the price. Im not feeling Maddison for 70m GBP. Maddison cancels ESR… they’re both direct. As is asked in basketball off the best point guards, can they create shots for others. Yes, but not as much as youd want them to. We miss subtlety, weight of pass in the final third, and lock picking, a la Mesut Ozil. Odegaard is a better fit, and better value.
joe willock is officially gone. i guess i’ll be watching a few more newcastle games than last season. good luck to him in his future.
Sambi starts. Good.
Willock? When Manu U buy him for 40m is 3 years’ time, we’ll be patting ourselves on the back that we inserted a sell-on clause.
what a goatfuck! i told you guys arsenal should have sacked that clown manager this summer. this is arteta’s team and the club spent £75 million and this is what you get? arsenal got their ass kicked today, full stop.
+1
Dominated by Brentford…I am totally NOT onboard with this clown.
This was a farce. Sack him now. Tonight.
Yeah, that was ugly. ESR and Tierney looked pretty good. Not much for anyone else.
And City and Chelsea next, so we’re starting 0-3.
Might have been better to have been playing one of them today. It likely would have resulted in a repeat of the 8-2 tonking we received some years ago from Utd. That one prompted significant changes. Who knows now.
I’m not sure we were any better with Ben White than we would have been with Chambers or Holding in there. Should have spent that money on something related to more goals. Or at least kept Willock. I’m guessing that of the team on the bench, Bellerin had probably scored more PL goals than anyone else, and that’s not a whole lot.
Foul on Leno for the 2nd goal. Clearly held and prevented from jumping. What puzzled me though was that no one got in Michael Oliver’s face to protest, or to plead with him to go check VAR. I hope that that is not because players have resigned and have checked out.
Im not Mikel’s biggest fan, but I dont want to get too reactive after 1 game, so here’s what I liked. Emile and Tierney showed fight throughout. Expect big seasons from both of them. Saka livened up the party when he came on. Pepe is finding his groove (and working more defensively) and it took a really good save to keep him off the scoresheet.
What I didnt like. Sambi looked overawed in the 1st half, but came out of his shell in the 2nd. Height and heading are issues for Ben White (good call, Tim), but I thought he already looks the leader of the defence and played mostly solidly. Balogun doesnt (yet) look up to this level. Chambers stood off his man for the first goal, and Pinnock showed him, twice, how you block shots with full commitment. Mari had a mare.
Overall, we have a lot more work to do to improve this squad than any of us imagined.
I know that I have an overly-active BS meter, but I dont believe that both senior strikers were sick at the same time. I have no evidence that they weren’t.
Saw a clip of Arteta talking about them before the game. He said they weren’t feeling well, but was laughing about it. There’s an issue there, I have no doubt. How bad, remains to be seen. Maybe they both got offers to leave and think they’re better off elsewhere.
Mari shouldn’t have started. He had a horrible game against Spurs too. He’s, at best, in poor form. You lose a left footed player at LCB but surely you play Holding or Chambers there.
Anyway, I had hoped we’d win but this loss comes as no surprise to me. Nor its manner. Chelsea up next.
Woke up at 3am to watch. My lovely partner asked me before the game how do I feel about it? I replied that I feel we will win 2-1. Didn’t know about the strikers being “unwell” at the time. Watching both teams made me realise how unsure Arsenal looked (it was obvious that the players had not had time to work together much). But the fact that the only key play we have is Tierney making cutbacks after 18 months of Artetaball was depressing. Our front three were damningly poor. As our most experienced attacker, Pepe should have taken the lead but one decent shot at goal all through the game is piss poor. Ben White getting dominated, Leno being timid, Xhaka doing his maddening high risk play in the penalty box when being pressed, lack of creative play among the forward line. So many negatives… In contrast, Brentford played like a team. A team where every player knows his role, there is buy-in of the manager’s tactics.
Arsenal owners thought that by hiring Edu and Arteta they could hide behind the fig leaf of “ex-Arsenal player’s DNA”. But it was pretty clear by end of last year that Arteta is not ready for this job. Neither is Edu. Instead of getting rid of them and installing an experienced DOF and manager, they let things drift and wasted some more money on a player who was not a priority. They did the same with Emery. If Kroenkes are serious about running this club properly, they should first install a proper board with experienced professionals who are of good footballing pedigree. Then they should find a forward thinking CEO and DOF who have experience working with clubs with limited budgets. I am sure Europe has few options who would fill the role. After that, the Kroenkes can sit with these new bosses to identify a manager/coach who will fit the philosophy which remembers Wenger’s legacy of attacking football. Make that the cornerstone of the way we should play. And ensure that this philosophy permeates through all structures within the club. If Leeds can do it, Brentford can do it, I am sure Arsenal can do it too.
The most damning indictment of Edu and Arteta was seeing Bellerin, AMN and Soares being on the bench and new signing Nuno coming on to play at RB instead. Imagine 3 RBs sitting and the coach sends a new LB. If that is not a criminal waste of resources, I don’t know what is.
agreed. however, we’ve seen it all before with this management team.
Claude:
I don’t know what to make of Willock’s goal scoring run at the end of last season with Newcastle. My guess is that it will turn out to be similar to Adebyor’s 07/08 season and Ramsey’s 13/14 season and he will never come close to replicating what he did last year. Again its a complete guess but I suspect over the long term he will turn out to be a 5-7 league goals/season midfielder. That is a good goal output for a midfielder but he does not bring much else to the game. He is not really a player who brings much to the build up play and not a great defender. If we do have a sell on clause then I hope I am wrong and Willock turns out to be great and Newcastle sells him for big money and we get part of the profits.
But you love goalscorers, Bill!
You talk A LOT about scoring goals, seemingly at the exclusion of all other facets of play. You say almost daily that if a coach doesnt have guys who know how to stick in the net, there is nothing he can do to improve a team’s standing. You say that all the time. Tactics, schmactics… it’s goals, and goalscorers.
You point out that ESR, Martinelli, Saka etc have scored very few, and expecting them to (or depending on young players for goal output) is delusional. You even ding Guendouzi — a deep midfielder — for not scoring enough.
Willock’s goal scoring prowess, now, suddenly, doesnt matter? You talk about his build up play (welcome to the club), and helpfully to your current argument guess that he wont turn out to be all that.
I rarely agree with your arguments, but at least you’ve been consistent. Till now. What gives? (I ask rhetorically).
Josh
Guendouzi playing all of those minutes at a young age was mostly because his teams did not have enough talent in the depth chart ahead of him. He has been playing regular minutes for 3 seasons now and he has not developed any end product. You comment at 11:14AM said that Guendouzi is young and talented and all of the other stuff (end product and defensive nous) can be developed with proper coaching and experience. My point was the the last 15 years of Arsenal history have seen several dozen “talented” players but the actually results of what happened to nearly all of those talented players provides more then enough evidence to support my contention that in the vast majority of cases the ability to score goals and produce assists (end product) can’t be developed by proper coaching and experience.
Just watched ManU vs Leeds. Leeds attack at all costs mentality is admirable and fun but you can’t win consistently in the PL if you play consistently poor defense. My guess is the top 1/2 of the table finish last season was a one off and they will struggle to avoid a relegation battle this season.