I know that I owe you all a bunch of articles: one on ciabatta, one on the Copa America, and at least one on the Euros. But I’m still fuming over what happened last night and probably shouldn’t write anything until I get over it. I will just say that I am so proud of Bukayo Saka and so gutted for him.
Instead of me talking, I would like to hear your thoughts. My favorite thing about this blog is that you all are so thoughtful and intelligent. Maybe you can talk me down a bit from my very angry place.
Bukayo will be fine, he’s always looked like a level headed boy who’s too smart to let anything stop him from getting on with it.
55 years of history placed on the shoulders of a 19 year old person of color in bojo country. This, one of many things mr waistcoat bottled. I’ll always respect that he stepped up in 96 when someone else didn’t fancy it, but it’s one of many things southgate messed up in this game.
My heart breaks for Saka. Not sure how they choose who takes the spot kicks, but I’m very impressed he had the cojones to step up 5th in front of Sterling, Grealish and others. That speaks volumes about his character. I loved that he plays for Arsenal before last night but my Saka fandom just went through the roof. Really glad to see the older players rally around him after the miss. From what I gather about him through the TV, I think he’ll be fine in the long run. At least Southgate has been in his shoes and can relate/coach him through this.
That said…I do think it’s ridiculous to put a 19 year old in that position. Unless he asked for it.
More so, I’m apoplectic at the reported racist social media that Saka, Rashford and Sancho received. The effin social media companies have got to step up and and do more. There has to be something that can be done. I’m not a tech guy but you can’t tell me there’s no way to stop those from posting. I know we can’t filter people’s thoughts, and I don’t want to, but we have to absolutely prevent them from access to a bullhorn.
There are fairly standard ways of doing it, actually. The modern computing power at the disposal of analytics & data-science teams makes this a simple task, and you get almost turn-key solutions from Google Cloud, Amazon Web Services and aven Adobe i think.
And social media companies are at the forefront of text analytics (natural language processing & sentiment analysis).
The problem really is choosing where to draw the line, even for these sophisticated algorithms.
I am immensely proud of our very talented and very likeable young Bukayo Saka stepping up to take the predictably crucial fifth spot kick when other far more experienced teammates failed to do so. Saka showed courage and character and his willingness to take that kick throws into sharp contrast others in that team who failed to step forward. He is a credit to Arsenal. Roy Keane said that senior pros ‘who ‘let a child’ take the fifth spot kick should be ashamed of themselves and I fully agree. Apparently Sterling has missed his last three penalties (probably dived) and Grealish last took one for Villa (and missed) 18 months ago. However Saka, only 19, has never taken a penalty for the Arsenal first team. Southgate appears to have used the penalty success rate of players in training to compile his order which somewhat ignores the big picture but if so, he should have chosen the more experienced Kane or Maguire for that crucial fifth pen.
that’s absolutely nuts when you think that this kid has never taken a spot kick in his professional career, yet at 19, he was expected to take that fifth kick at a european championship. i don’t care what he did in training; training is not the same pressure as the game and every manager should know that.
in fact, i watch every dortmund game and i don’t recall jadon sancho ever taking a penalty kick either. southgate has to know it’s part of his job to insulate young players and protect them from all sorts of things, including themselves.
i know everyone thinks he’ll be fine but who knows? i hope so, but i recall dennis bergkamp missing a penalty once against man united and refusing to take on ever again. we know dennis has the technical brilliance and mentality to deliver under pressure but the residual effect of getting it wrong is too heavy a crown for a young man’s head. we’ll see.
I tried to leave a comment but Askimet decided it was Spam or something.
Woeful – just like this country!
I’m not too worried about Saka. Everyone misses some, including Messi and Ronaldo. And Jorginho, right before him. Saka’s wasn’t an awful penalty, Donnarumma is just big and went the right way.
Southgate didn’t actually have a lot of options with good penalty records. He did bring on two of them, Rashford and Sancho, who both missed. Probably should have got them on sooner, not just for the penalties, but perhaps to have a better chance of it not going to penalties. Sterling and Henderson both have poor records. Grealish doesn’t take PKs for Villa, but has said he did volunteer to go sooner. Maybe should have tried Luke Shaw instead?
You also don’t want your best PK people going last, as if the others miss early, you won’t even get to them.
The on-line abuse suffered by Saka and the others makes me furious, but sadly isn’t at all surprising. Until the social media companies and authorities cooperate to have much more serious crackdowns on it, it will keep happening.
To the extent that I’m mad about anything, it’s Southgate’s tactics and sub use. Sitting back for 85 mins was risky, and once it became clear we weren’t getting many counter opportunities with that lineup, he should have made some changes. Should have had one or more of Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Rashford or Foden on early in the second half to offer more of an attacking outlet.
In basketball lingo, it is a make or miss league. Saka took a penalty, and unfortunately he missed. It happens and I don’t blame anybody. I will be hypocritical if I wanted Southgate to elevate Saka and blame him when he does exactly that. Saka’s qualities makes him an almost automatic penalty taker, he is composed and has good technique. The opportunity to be a hero comes with the risk of great failure, and I bet Saka was willing to take that risk, it speaks greatly of him.
In these situations I heed the advice of great majority of people who say it is just a game, don’t take adults kicking the ball around too seriously.
I am cheering for Italy but seeing Saka stepped up for the 5th was not ideal as an Arsenal fan. When he missed, had a mixed feeling. I’d rather see Rashford and Saka swapped order so that Saka’s miss is not magnified. On the bright side, Saka could be England manager in 2040 after 5th order miss.
I just hope it doesn’t scar him mentally. Shameless by Gareth and his close team of advisors. Am even bigger shame to Henderson who steals penalties from other players for not stepping up. Your two best penalty takers can’t be first and second consecutively. Completely bottled it.
Hope many examples are made out of the racist abuse and that saka goes offline for two or three weeks to avoid the additional damage.
“I would like to hear your thoughts. My favorite thing about this blog is that you all are so thoughtful and intelligent”
Southgate fu#ked up, the end.
England were always the more likely looser in the shootout.
They have a terrible record ( worst in Europe of any team taking part in three or more), and Donnarumma is 5/5 for club and country.
Southgate’s biggest mistake was how conservative his set up was. Apparently only Greece in 2004 created as few chances in Euros as England did since 1984.
What a waste of attacking talent.
The maddening think is that Bukayo was put in that position. Sterling, where the hell were you? Donnarumma is a freakin man mountain. With the occasion and the nerves, he must look 12 feet tall from the spot. Look, Gareth is the coach, and he knows his players best. But a moment like that is far, far more than about how well they struck it training. I can assure you that no one could replicate facing Donnarumma on the training ground.
The worst part of the evening for me, though Tim, was England players yanking off their runners up medals before they left the presentation podium, in Jude Bellingham’s case, right under the nose of the official who put it around his neck. That was beyond words f****** awful sportsmanship. Ive soured on England. I hope they win nothing. Shoot me.
Yup, removing those medals in such manner is kinda the equivalent to fans booing the other country’s national anthem before the game — just poor form.
Olympics are just around the corner…….wonder how many athletes yank their runner up medals off their necks while on the podium. Probably zero.
The arrogance of young footballers is usually proportional to the amount of money being thrown at them to play a game they would’ve played for nothing.
The English better hang on to their medals because something tells me they’ll never get another one…….considering how things worked out to their advantage in these Euros.
Sterling hasn’t taken very many, and has missed more than he’s scored. Regardless of his seniority, that’s not who I want taking them.
Very disappointing about the medals. Came off like a bunch of petulant kids.
Like most (if not, all) Arsenal fans, I am immensely proud that Saka is a Gunner. Class shone through him from the start of the tournament. Well done, Bukayo! You are a credit to yourself and your family.
As for those a bit short of brain cells with their crass social media comments, shame on you!!! I don’t do Twitter et al, so am blessed I don’t have to read such insults. I do have some observations:
Some people will always have such puerile thoughts. Identifying them and banning them won’t stop them. It’ll be like playing whack-a-mole. They’ll find a way.
But how DO you identify them? And what then? Punishment, and they become martyrs for their cause. Education, and it’ll seem like letting them off scot-free. The answer doesn’t seem immediate, but thinking of education and the long-term, it might be a great idea to educate such people BEFORE they become full-on vitriolics. There must be some long standing life-affecting moral guidance by which we could live by ……
Oh yes, it’s just not cricket, removing ones runner up medal like that! My wife and I were appalled.
Furious of Tumbridge Wells
Yeah, it happens every final, I don’t see the fuss
Bukayo Saka’s mental makeup is elite. His composure under any circumstance he’s faced has always been exemplary. Athletes with these attributes, even a young man such as Saka– will find the path to turn this frustration into motivation. It will drive him harder to be the best he can.
Gunners worldwide extend their embrace to Bukayo Saka.
Compare and contrast the failure to convert by Jorginho and Saka. The experience of the two in penalty situations is quite different, but both of their shots were stopped by brilliant goalkeeping. There is too much focus on the kickers, and too little credit for the keepers. It is a rare bit of good fortune that even put Saka on the line. He will show he learned much from the entire experience, and distinguish himself as a future penalty taker for Arsenal!
They all miss: Ozil, Messi, Renaldo have all missed important penalties. That Saka stepped up in the first place does him huge credit. How can you not love this kid? He does everything and leaves it all out there on the pitch. No more to be said.
Big cajones on our boy! He put himself out there when others wouldn’t/didn’t.
Bukayo has the support of a great family and team mates at Arsenal and the love of MOST Gooner fans. The same can’t be said of England so called “supporters” – they are a disgrace.
But it’s on us ALL. We allowed this rabble of a government to be voted in. Time and time again. Everything they do is “the will of the people”. Well, the people need to fucking wake up because no reasonable human being in their right mind would have voted for this shambles, could they?
The problem is, we’ve got a Home Secretary egging people on to “hate” foreigners, boo the England players, boo other nations’ National Anthems, and giving her Police the night off while thousands of ENGLISH – thats ENGLISH thugs rampaged around London, smashing up property and beating up anyone who got in their way. This included children and innocent folks just trying to go about this daily lives.
Lets face it, England has become like 1930’s Germany – the trouble is, the brownshirts (exchanged in England for drunken, violent, naked thugs) don’t even relaise that they are the patsies of this evil, fascist, Tory regime. Either that, or they are just too pissed/drugged up to care.
On a personal level, i couldn’t get excited by this tournament at all, well not where England was concerned. I was excited for the team, but not for the country. It was almost a relief to me that England lost. Can you imagine the thuggery today if England had won?
I just hope UEFA do a lot better when they hand out the punishments for last night’s fiasco. They shot across the FA’s bows with a £25k fine last week, but this has to be rewarded with a ban, perhaps FIFA will also step in. No world cup for England next year would be a deserved punishment. Never being allowed to host International competition again would also fit the bill. This is back to the bad old days of English Football Thuggery in 1980’s.
We have to “take it on the chin” in the words of Boris Johnson, Leader of this shamelful UK government, who isn’t man enough to take on any of the blame himself.
The Tories are a disgrace and I’m ashamed to be English at this moment in time.
One of the most disgraceful comments I have ever seen on forum – I shall hold off from saying anything worse as this is probably a troll
Of course, if I was Saka’s mother I’d be furious with Southgate for making him take that fifth penalty and putting him in that position. But then if I was Saka I’d be gutted but proud I took the penalty, and I’d probably be really embarrassed by my mum getting overprotective (yes I am Saka AND his mum in this scenario).
So while I think it was a clear managerial mistake to pick the kids for the pens, I can’t say that it was unfair. I’m confident Saka will put it behind him and accept that nothing about England’s defeat was his fault.
The racist abuse makes me angry and tired. But Southgate can’t factor that in to his decision. You can’t give penalties to white players to protect the black players. Or to the older players to protect the young. You have to go with who you think will score.
The abuse doesn’t even have much to do with losing the game. After winning the semi-final, England fans at Wembley were still screaming at 9 year old Danish kids and spitting in their faces. It’s why it’s been really hard to support England wholeheartedly over the years. You know that every victory is making millions of complete c*nts very happy and proud, and while I really wanted us to beat Italy, it softens the blow to know that those people had their day ruined.
Every word you here landed with the precision of a Franco Baresi pass. Perfectly stated, Greg.
I probably let anger colour my own comment. Great to get something both measured and bang on target.
Thanks Claude. Barney in the Guardian also mentions the massive levels of drug taking by England fans, and that reminds me that the far right are all usually coked off their heads on their marches.
I’ve been generally amazed at the generosity, respect and care shown by the English public towards their neighbors during lockdown, but at moments of national celebration the lid comes off and something much nastier is getting exposed. Drugs, hate, false pride and basic cruelty are rampant, and it speaks of a huge level of underlying fear in our society.
Fully agreed, and it’s thoroughly depressing isn’t it.
Also – and this in no way exonerates their half-hearted efforts – the massive focus in the press on social media platforms being to blame for enabling the racist abuse kind of misses the point that there would be no abuse if it wasn’t somehow tolerated / fostered in society.
I’m proud of Saka. I’m proud of every single one of the team who have exuded a different level of cultural class to many English footballers past, never mind technical ability.
And I keep telling myself that these dickheads are just a small minority of English and not representative of our country and society as a whole and I am right to want to be proud to be English. But events like those of the past few weeks never mind 48 hours suggest that I might be just pulling the wool over my own eyes.
@ Tim, I think you’ve posted previously (or if not then one of the other smart commenters) that as he gets older Saka will work and be coached more on his goal scoring to add that final element.to his game. I would hope that any self doubt will be more than compensated by the assuredness that will come from being able to regularly ‘put them away’, and hopefully Arteta will have him practicing penalties till the cows come home so he can compartmentalise what happened and step up to future penalties with confidence.
I may be proven wrong, but I would also hope that he’s not going to suffer the same footballing abuse in the grounds (and clearly he hasn’t in the English press) as Southgate, Pearce, Beckham (for his red card) etc did.
Gareth Southgate ended up doing a tv advert with a bag over his head ffs. It wasn’t poking fun at himself, it was disgraceful that he felt pressured to have to do such a thing to help him get over it
The abuse thing is hardly just England. The US is in an equally poor place.
The other thing to point out relative to the PK’s, is England were partly screwed as soon as they lost the toss and had to go second. According to one study the team that goes first wins about 60% of the time. That’s a big advantage.
I thought this was a football blog and not a left wing political one.
You could see the fear in Saka’s eyes as he went to take the penalty, especially having seen Rashford and Sancho miss theirs
Not everyone can take penalties and it is clear that he took it because no one else wanted to.
For the person who criticised Henderson for not taking a penalty seems to have forgotten that he was substituted.
Football certainly came home, but having had a good look at it, decided it would prefer to go to a warmer climate.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/57813679
England captain Harry Kane has told those behind the racist abuse of team-mates Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho and Bukayo Saka: “You’re not an England fan and we don’t want you.”
Unfortunately, I hate him less when comes out strongly with stuff like this. But he’s dead to rights, here. Harry, please return to being an absolute wanker, so I can keep hating on your Sp#$sy ass.
Wow! Good for Harry. I didn’t see that story, thanks for linking it. I did see last night that he immediately went to Saka to reassure and support him. Like you, 1Nil, I guess I’ll have to hate him less. That is until he backs under a Gunner going up for a header in our preseason friendly.
It has seemed to me throughout this competition that Southgate wanted to replay his own story playing for England. He famously failed taking penalty number five. This would mean redemption by actually winning a penalty shootout. Sounds odd, I know but all his conservatism seems to have a certain inevitabilty.
On that altar he sacrificed three young Englishmen. Ridiculous but I believe it. Saka, never taken a penalty before. Sancho and Rashford given 1 minute to get warmed up prior to taking a Penalty. Not to mention taking off two defenders just prior to a last minute Italian corner to get them on, the match could have ended there.
He has ‘taken responsibility’. Well, he has a lot to take responsibility for. Deeply flawed manager.
Southgate missed number 6 pen
I must also say that most of the political comment here is just bloody ridiculous. I am English, I live in England. 99 .9 % of English fans are decent people. Thugs are thugs everywhere. Brownshirts? Evil fascist regime? What a lot of hyperbolic bollocks.
I am surprised that this blog tolerates such ill meant nonsense. I have always seen balance and sense here previously.
Wait, are you proposing that the blog proprietor CENSOR the views that YOU find offensive?
C’mon man. At least make the attempt at intellectual consistency…
I’d say more like 95%. Out of 30 million England fans, from kids to grandparents, casual or otherwise, there are a couple of million c*nts and every England fan knows it.
For a more nuanced, articulate and historically literate take than mine, Jonathan Liew is very good:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/13/englands-repressed-craving-for-shared-experience-reveals-its-ugly-side
I generally don’t remove comments unless they are racist, sexist, homophobic, or direct hatred toward one single person. I read Feng’s comment and while I agree that it’s over the top and definitely not in the best taste I don’t think it rises to the level of me needing to remove it.
Happy to be convinced as to why it should be removed.
Saka doesn’t seem like the type to get cowed by anything. He is incredibly brave and strong-willed. I think long-term it will just let him appreciate future silverware all that much more. He will win, with or without Arsenal.
I have some sympathy for Southgate about the choices for pen takers, I think there’s always reason to second guess those. Anyone else howling with outrage like me when Magure stepped up for his penalty? Turned out to be the right call. I fully suspect Saka was adamant about taking the pen. This is a gut call – and if Sake goes the other way, Southgate’s a genius.
I’m much more critical of his approach to the match. Pretty much sat back for 70 minutes. That was never going to win this final. His defense-first style really wasted the attacking talent the team has. I started to feel like I was watching a rerun of Arsenal under Arteta. Very defensive, and dull football.
I also can’t believe he made only 2 subs deep into extra time. Why didn’t he bring on some pace to go right at the octogenarian CB pair Italy fielded. Yellow cards would have happened sooner – maybe a red. Harry Kane was their dream attacker to defend. The only player slower than them!
If England had won, it wouldn’t have been the better team. Italy deserved it. Be angry at the morons making racist comments, but England have a lot to be proud of and a lot of international football to look forward to. And Buyako the fearless will come through this stronger.
+1
It’s also what lost Denmark the game against England.
Yep. If you play not to lose, you always do.
England XI penalty takers (Career)
==========
Kane – 44 of 52
Maquire – 0 of 0
Rashford – 15 of 17
Sancho – 10 of 11
Saka – 0 of 0
===
Sterling – 2 of 5
Grealish – 1 of 1
Phillips 0 of 0
Shaw 0 of 0
Stones 0 of 0
Pickford
==========
Calvert-Lewin – 3 of 3
A different set of figures was reported in the Telegraph (given the Saka figures, I guess these include last night’s efforts):
Kane 46/53; Rashford 14/16; Sterling 4/9; Sancho 4/5; Mount 4/5; Maguire 4/5; Trippier 2/4; Henderson 1/4; Phillips 2/3; Rice 1/2; Grealish 0/1; Calvert-Lewin 1/1; Pickford 1/1; Walker 1/1; Shaw 1/1; Stones 1/1; Coady 0/1; Chillwell 1/1; Saka 0/1; the rest of the squad 0/0.
Southgate certainly didn’t have a great choice.
Went player by player at Transfermarkt.
Those numbers included PL, international, friendlies, PL2.
Possible I missed something– but the boilerplate there reads:
“This page provides an overview of all penalties a player has taken in his career. You can also view the match in which the penalty was awarded, when the referee awarded it and who the goalkeeper was.”
Yeah Tim, I felt a flash of anger at the logic of the penalty process, but my overriding emotion is regret at the set of circumstances Saka faced and concern for his well-being in this immediate aftermath.
The manager got it wrong not only on the night but in the so-called data led process. And yes, I do believe there was an element of self fulfilling prophesy to it all. In his deep need to control a penalty situation Southgate pre-selected his first 5 takers, based on practice under laboratory conditions. Only numbers 6, 7,
8, … were based on the players on the pitch and their willingness/confidence in the moment. Big mistake IMO. It is probably a reflection of the trust and esteem Southgate has for Saka that he believed he could and would be able to deliver. In my opinion he had a plan up to and including the semis but not for the final. His selection of players only made sense for part of the game if winning albeit in a pressure cooker was his aim. Fear overrode everything. His tinkering with the formation and substitutions was not clear headed, compounded perhaps by the talent at his disposal.
I’d like to think that Saka’s obvious character and intelligence will ensure he processes this in the right way. However, I expect fallout over the coming months while he does that and also deals with the disappointment. The FA and Clubs must ensure that none of those 3 boys are booed at away games in the coming season. They need love and care. Baptism of fire for sure, and on some level Saka sought it out, to excel.
As for the racism. Nothing new there. Young though they are these black kids have been dealing with it all there lives, sadly. The positive side of the coin is that they are embedded in a football system that has support mechanisms in place and is starting to take this issue seriously. I think he will be more familiar with this aspect of his development.
I am so proud of him. I am proud of Southgate and his teammates for the concern they showed and the hugs they offered. I’m proud of the progress they have made. Rashford talked of his Band of Brothers. That sounds promising. So, Tim chin up. Use your platform to put your arms around him and the other talents who are giving their all to excel.
It’s the final of a major tournament. I wouldn’t expect the manager to worry about the long term future of his players or the potential negative reaction among sections of the public before deciding his penalty takers.
Whether Saka was the best choice or not I have no idea, but evidently his ability and mentality was trusted. I don’t mind. He could also potentially have been a hero. It’s the nature of the beast and what makes it so compelling too.
As for the reaction from the racists, it’s all too predictable. Winning would only have deprived them of their excuse for unleashing it, losing gave them carte blanche. And though I have sympathy and agreement with those who say thugs are everywhere and they are only a tiny minority, the more that argument is made, the more they grow in number and in boldness, while the ‘silent majority’, those not (immediately) targeted, become ever more silent and complacent. It’s best to nip it in the bud.
I do not support the calls for social media IDs though. These companies and the state can already do the needful. They arrested a man in Singapore for sending Maupay death threats. The only reason to ask for IDs is to have more power, even as they do less and less to stop this scourge. Mass surveillance is never the answer, mass condemnation of this behaviour along with punishing the guilty is essential.
By the way, I was supporting Italy and am really glad they won. England didn’t lose this game because Southgate picked the wrong penalty takers, they lost because of his cowardice before. The better team won.
I wouldn’t worry for Saka. He has indeed been let down by this disastrous shootout management. But Saka will go on being this electric fearless, creative player. He will confirm his status. And, as from his first good game, his first goal or assist, it will be pure joy again and this trauma will fade behind the happiness of performing.
Also, he knows the big picture. he is an international already, he was convincing. His unique skills were on display. He showed courage. His teammates were behind him after the missed penalty (in striking contrast to the Mbappé situation).
The only thing I’d add about Saka’s miss is that, coming after Pickford’s (remarkable) save, it must have been a whole lot harder – everyone, I’m sure Saka included, thought we’d lost once Sancho missed. To think one moment that you wouldn’t be needed and then suddenly to be propelled back into the spotlight must have been doubly difficult.
I’m interested that there’s been no discussion about the Saka yellow card incident – to me you could class it as dangerous play and it merited a red for Chielini. Similarly (and more blatantly) the stamp on Grealish. With Chielini off and Italy down to 10 for the whole of extra time, the result might have been very different. How is strangling someone, not considered serious foul play or reckless endangerment?
Chiellini’s was a professional foul, it was cynical, but it was never a red card. A shirt tug that looks bad does not make it a red. It occurred on the touchline, near the centre with lots of players between them and the goal. No, he did not “strangle” Saka, or commit “serious foul play or reckless endangerment.” A bit OTT, I think.
Jorginho on Grealish perhaps was, even though Mark Clattenburg explained very well to ESPN’s international audience why it was not a sending off. What it was NOT, Clattenburg said, was a stamp. It was an accidental follow through in going for and getting the ball. I’d not have quibbled with a red there, though. There WAS a case there for reckless endangerment.
England Denmark got decided by an unnecessary refereeing intervention. Im glad that the ref in the final saw the Chiellini foul for what it wasn’t.
The reason it looked bad is because it was bad, Claude.
It was obvious before the game started that the ref wasn’t gonna help decide this one with a pen or a sending off unless it was absolutely 100% stone cold certain.
I’m not saying this because Saka plays for Arsenal or I wanted England to win ( didn’t care) but a run of the mill shirt tug this was not.
You see this type in the PL and some refs might consider it excessive force.
Im going with Arsene Wenger on this one. At worst, it was orange 🙂
I am certainly not suggesting that you remove any post, that is entirely your business. I take strong exception to comparing Nazi Germany with the democratically elected UK government and yes, I know that the nazis were elected but they rapidly removed the democratic process. The Brown Shirts were an arm of government. The inference seemed to be that the thugs in Webley were as well! Offensive? Yes.
My father was a serving Marine from 1937 until 1961. My grandfather fought through WW1 in the Royal Artillery and was killed in the Royal Engineers in London clearing casualties from bombed buildings. I am pretty sure they both would recognise the difference between the UK government in 2021 and the German government in 1940.
The bile that dripped from the post concerned is typical of a body of political activism alive today that looks to divide societies by the erection of h arguments. Typically in the UK these have been strongly represented in many who opposed Brexit and are supporters of a party in the UK that has been found to be anti semitic.
As for English football hooligans, how many of you have stood on a terrace in Greece or Italy and experienced the violence and threats on show? It is not racist to hate the English but it is certainly zenophobic.
I enjoy your blog and take on wider life but I have no desire to be lectured by trolls and pot stirrers. All the best to you. I will find another blog that chats bollocks about football, that is what I am looking to do.
Appreciate your comments. There are many Arsenal blogs that focus on football. Many of us here appreciate the stimulus of a wider array of topics. That sometimes brings the detritus of some unpleasant posts. As a reader and commenter of many years, I have absolute trust in our host’s ability to moderate.
Sorry to see you go. For the record, I agree with you that the UK isn’t a fascist dictatorship and that that comparison is hugely uncalled for.
As for what goes on in the terraces in Europe, as a Canadian, I’m appalled. I don’t say that with any sense of superiority – we have our share of nasty fans here as well – but it’s not systemic. I can honestly say that racial abuse in the stands here would lead to physical abuse in the stands. By other fans who would not tolerate it. There is plenty of racism in Canada as elsewhere but vile comments would bring instant trouble from people surrounding the offender. And throwing a banana on the pitch? Call an ambulance for that bloke because that’s the only way he’s leaving the game.
You dont owe us anything, au contraire. We do owe you and plenty.
Patreon is good.
However, I agree with Cbob. That post was bullshit and way, way of topic.
Today there’s an interesting report that 55 of the 105 offensive Instagram/Twitter messages to the three players who failed to convert their penalties were traceable. Only 5 of these originated within the UK. 50 came from abroad. What is the meaning of this? Is the rest of the world racist? Or are there forces working to disrupt the cohesion of UK society? In either case, speaking as a non-Englishman, I think tarring England fans with systemic racism seems somewhat hyperbolic.
I saw that and wondered about it. It does not say whether they checked if these were accounts using VPN. If so, they could well be coming from the UK. Anyone have any further details on that?
This is a bit difficult to unpack but I can give it a go.
1. They used IP address to decide where people were from, it really only tells us where the message MAY have come from and I’m curious where they got this information
2. “Originated in the UK” is probably a bit misleading since people could be using VPN to mask their IP or these could be English people living abroad, using a cell phone, etc.
3. That said, I do believe that there are a number of people who literally just bandwagon on and say racist things to get attention and that many of those people exist outside the UK
4. Yes of course not all football fans are racist, and if we polled fans I’m sure almost none of them would openly identify as racist, though I have seen quite a bit of racism in my time attending matches in England
5. The question of systemic racism, however, is not really debateable. Systemic racism and white power structures exist in almost every facet of English, French, American, and many other societies.
6. One example of systemic racism is exactly this kind of “flattening” of the problem, telling people “it’s not that bad” or “there aren’t really that many racists” and then the logical conclusion which is that “there’s really not that much to complain about.”
7. It’s also unquestionable that the people who defaced Marcus Rashford’s mural were 100% living inside England.
8. Not being racist isn’t the same as being anti-racist and my guess is that if you dig into the behavior and beliefs of most white, male, football fans you would find a LOT of racist behavior and almost no anti-racist behavior.