Naught point four expected goals against Brighton

Arsenal were completely outplayed for 90 minutes against a lively and well organized Brighton Hove and Albion side. The match ended 0-0 but that was down more to luck and a good save at the end (off a non-shot) which kept Arsenal’s undefeated streak going.

Graham Potter set up his Brighton side brilliantly and they executed his game plan to near perfection. Brighton dominated possession against Arsenal, looking like a big team rather than a small team from the south coast. Their interchanges and crosses were excellently drilled and they had plenty of chances in the match. After the match, Mikel Arteta praised his defense for keeping a clean sheet against Brighton but there was more than a whiff of good luck in that.

In the first half Brighton had two really good crosses flash into the Arsenal 6 yard box which were just begging for a good forward to get on the end of them. Dan Burn also had a wide open header in the Arsenal box, which he missed. And there were a number of shots which seem like low percentage which were wide open chances and you have to think that if they had some better players they could have scored.

They looked like a Guardiola side in many ways, passing the ball in neat patterns and easily beating Arsenal’s lazy press. And they pressed Arsenal high up the pitch, winning the ball back far too often in our own third. After just a few minutes, Arsenal were reduced to long kicks.

When Arsenal had the ball, they pressed in packs high up the pitch, closing down on players with the ball from the exact right angle nearly every time, forcing the Arsenal players into bad decisions. After the match, Arteta admitted that Brighton were the better team, better organized, and better pressing, but blamed his players instead of his own incompetence.

“I think it’s a point gained because I don’t think we deserved anything more than that. If we did deserve that point it’s because we defended really well the last 15/20 minutes. But in general we never felt in control of the game, we struggled to break the press and get good sequences of passes in the final third. They made it really tough for us.

“Yes, because the way they pressed if we had made better decisions with the ball there were bigger spaces to attack and we had a real threat to do that. But we weren’t bright enough to do that and we didn’t show enough quality on those duels to break that press and then become really dangerous in open spaces.”

https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-draw-ramsdale-and-lokonga

Arlo White on the broadcast kept saying that Arsenal “lacked energy” but Graeme Le Saux repeatedly (and gently) explained that it was how Brighton were set up that caused Arsenal to look lethargic. When a team presses the way that Brighton did, you need to have excellent patterns of play, well drilled into your team to counter their pressure. Relying on individuals to “make good decisions” and “show enough quality” in one on one duels begs the question “what’s the point of the coach?” If this is truly the correct answer, how was Brighton so much better? And if it’s still just about having better players, I guess we will have to hope that Kroenke spends another £150m in January.

Contrast Potter’s comments after the match:

“The performance was fantastic. I loved our intensity, I loved our courage, I loved our quality. It was a wonderful performance and I am really proud of the players. 

“The hard bit is putting the ball in the net, but we did and tried everything to do that. The intensity was great, regaining the ball, the way we played out from the back, winning it back, going man-for-man with their high-quality players.

“The players showed great courage and real intelligence, it was a fantastic performance.

“His [Cucurella] contribution has been brilliant on and off the pitch. He has settled in really well, the way he plays the game is so refreshing. He brings energy to the team, but I thought the whole team performance was amazing, and I don’t want to single anyone out as the team were fantastic.

https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2279466/potter-the-performance-was-fantastic

By the 26th minute of the match, it was so clear what was going on that I’d noted that it was the kind of game that Arsenal were going to have to luck into a win.

In the few instances when Arsenal had the ball (they only had 41% of the possession) they often were forced to go long or hope for something on a counter. When Arsenal went long, invariably Brighton would win the initial header (Ramsdale only completed 48% of his passes) and the 2nd ball but occasionally Arsenal would luck into a bit of possession. And in those few instances, Mikel Arteta relied solely on moments of individual brilliance to try to get three points. Bukayo Saka tried his best to provide those moments but even though he was able to beat his man occasionally Brighton did well enough to keep Arsenal’s xG to a mere 0.4.

On counter attacks, it looked like Brighton knew exactly what to expect from Arsenal. Often defenders shaded Arsenal’s attackers so that they didn’t even have good passing lanes to play the ball into. It was, in my eyes, a complete performance by Brighton yesterday and with better players, playing Potter’s system, they would have won that game easily.

Arsenal’s best moments were just a few minutes at the end of the first half and a few minutes around the 65th minute. In the first half, we won the ball back in midfield and created one non-shot big chance when Smith Rowe got some space and crossed to Auba but he was a bit slow to the ball. That pressure resumed in the 65th minute when Smith Rowe was moved into the number 10 role and had a couple of good passes. But Potter changed their system up, going man-to-man and daring Arsenal to beat them with individual quality which we literally couldn’t do.

The only individual quality on display for the day was Saka in the few moments he got the ball in attack and Aaron Ramsdale, who palmed away a pass from a header to prevent an easy goal for Maupay.

So, I guess it was a combination of the manager and the players stinking the joint up. And here we are, the fans, just accepting this as our lot in life. After beating Spurs, a lot of fans have been singing Arteta’s praises but it’s interesting that Nuno Dispirited Santo came out after the match and said that he got his first half tactics wrong. If we accept that self-assessment then it looks like Arsenal got a bit lucky last week and that this week we ran into a team which didn’t get their tactics wrong and again got a bit lucky.

After writing this (which is admittedly quite critical of Arteta) I went back and read what I wrote after the win over Tottenham. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t blowing sunshine up Arteta’s ass after that win. I was realistic. I mentioned that Nuno got the tactics wrong in the first half and that he fixed them in the second. And I mentioned that we were a bit lucky to escape with a 3-1 win: had Kane put away his one-v-one with Ramsdale, we would have been in deep trouble, I think.

A few weeks ago one of the main podcasts took the mick out of Arteta for getting extremely excited in a post-match interview after the 1-0 win over Burnley because Arsenal played good defense. Once again, after this match he seems to be praising the defense after another poor attacking performance. I find it hard to believe that a club with Arsenal’s resources getting 0.4 xG against Brighton is an acceptable result. Maybe once in a while it can happen against another big club but it would never be acceptable against mid to low table teams.

It seems to follow that his big idea, his process, is to make Arsenal play more defense (not proactive defense, positional defense). After 18 months of Arteta’s football I think we are starting to see that his version of “juego de posición” seems to be almost exclusively focused on defending. But if that’s the case, we may have some big trouble coming. Thomas Partey, Ødegaard, Tomiyasu, Lacazette, and Tierney won just 6/58 combined pressures (10%) against Brighton. Partey in particular had an awful defensive match, losing 5/7 tackles and winning just 18% of his pressures. Ironically, I thought he looked sharp in some phases of Arsenal’s play. If we continue to play defense like that and continue to lay goose eggs in attack we will lose a lot of games this season.

Maybe the next step is to start to introduce some more attacking play? I sure hope so because if not, we will be in for a long season and will definitely miss out on European football again next year.

Qq

54 comments

  1. The question(s) that keep haunting me are : Do Arsenal have a bad team…or a bad manager or both?….watching Arsenal games nowadays are no longer a pleasant experience. I hardly spend 90 minutes switched on to a match…(with the exception of the Spurs game which was enjoyable)

  2. Thanks for the review Tim

    Have to admit its hard for me to understand what a manager can do when the same players who looked so good last week lay an egg and are completely outplayed this week. It was basically the same players and I assume there were similar tactics. The manager can’t go out on the pitch and kick the ball himself. Despite what the some of the defensive stats might say the team has become a much better at playing defense and preventing goals against but I agree with you the team has not become a better attacking team. The manager is the captain of the ship but its clearly not just the manager who works with team. There is a whole army of assistant coaches and football people who watch film and have input and I am 100% sure the team has worked on how to break a press and how to find ways to create better chances in the final 1/3 but there is nothing the manager or assistant coaches can do if the players can’t execute.

    I thing I will definitely criticize Arteta and our front office for is spending a lot of money but almost no money has gone to improve the attacking part of the game. Saka, ESR and Odegaard are good players who could potentially be quite good in complementary roles but I don’t think over the long term we can build a team around them and expect them or carry the team back into contention for the top 4-6 spots in the league table. When we play well it can look like a team that has potential to compete for the top 3-6 spots in the league but when we play poorly we look like a team that will struggle to make the top 10. When you average that out we come out as mid table team and that is what we are right now and that is where we will stay until we improve our group of attacking players. Its up to Arteta and the front office to find a way to use our resources to rebuild the attacking side of the team.

    1. “its hard for me to understand what a manager can do when the same players who looked so good last week lay an egg and are completely outplayed this week”

      I dunno, Bill. There’s pretty detailed analysis in this post of Potter’s planning, tactics and tactical setup. The answer may lie in that?

      A team’s play doesn’t occur in a vacuum. There’s another team actively working to counter it.

    2. If after the highest player spending in Europe , if we cannot get the minimal (1 ) goal , then we have bought badly, which looks likely since our highest outlay has been to spend on White who is no better than Saliba, but worse than Saliba in aerial threats. Money we could have spent on a midfielder and forward and have change to spare.

    3. It have a feeling you are one of those people who intentionally oppose any and every view point just for kicks.

        1. Bill’s actually a genuine guy. He’s not a troll. The things he says are what he believes.

  3. As you know Tim we’ve been pretty much on this wavelength for a while. I thought I was going mad when so many writers and commenters seem to think Arteta is doing a great job…

    There was an ESPN article posted prior to the NLD. In summary:

    – We have much lower possession when we fall behind (when we most need to win the ball back we struggle)
    – We’re near the bottom of the league for ball recoveries in the opponent’s third (so our attacks always start deeper than many of our rivals). The exact opposite of what Pep and Klopp seek to do
    – We take the most percentage of shots when the opposition have at least two defenders and their goalkeeper between the shot taker and the goal (very low quality shots)

    It doesn’t paint a pretty picture. We’re poor at pressing and forcing turnovers. We don’t move the ball quickly enough to be a counter attacking team. And we’ve increased our shots output by taking loads of very low probability shots.

    There’s a run of less difficult games coming up but from November the run to Christmas is more challenging. We’ll know soon enough where Arsenal are likely to finish.

  4. Arsenal manage a point, away, to a well-coached, well-organized team, currently residing several rungs up the table from them– playing in in horrid conditions. While none of the ‘what-ifs’ that oughta-mighta-coulda have happened for BHA to scoop all three points actually did occur? Yet– Graham Potter is the brilliant one. Somehow, I think ol’ Graham thinks less so of himself.

    Better players? Maybe. Potter had £50M to spend at any moment his club decided to put pen to paper. All Summer IIRC. Playing a pat-hand with Maupay and Trossard up top seems an iffy equation– even with Maupay netting 4x to date. He’s also converting at 66%– unsustainable from what I’ve come to understand.

    What might have been brilliant was a cameo from Danny Welbeck. The guy who scores against his former teams at high rates. A master-bundler of goals from any bodypart– who would have been right at home bundling in off a shoulder-blade in a South Coast monsoon at Brighton.

    Making that selection– and winning 1-nil?
    Then ol’ Graham earns all ‘3-pts and a brilliant medal’.

  5. I think energy is a valid reason in a sense because that is one way to overcome the negative effect of our tactics. Arteta’s whole spiel is relying on individual quality and blaming the lack thereof when it doesn’t work.

    This was an Arsenal v Brighton game from years ago with roles reversed. The sooner we’re rid of this coach the sooner we can start to play Arsenal football.

    With Arteta in charge, I have us finishing 10th – 12th. Scoring less than 50 goals and less than 60 points. If we match all our results from last season from here, we’ll finish on 55 points, and I’m not confident we can do even that.

    1. “Arteta’s whole spiel is relying on individual quality and blaming the lack thereof when it doesn’t work.”

      – There’s nothing in his post-match statement after the Brighton game that blames the players, he says “we” throughout. The quality of players he didn’t sign is not his responsibility, but performances within the limits of that quality are, and he generally takes responsibility for that I think.

      – Also it’s too much to go into in a comment, but no manager has ever been successful without key players he can rely on and a certain level of quality throughout the squad. We simply have not had either. Not at sufficient levels.

      “If we match all our results from last season from here, we’ll finish on 55 points, and I’m not confident we can do even that.”

      – Fair point. Also if we keep up our form from the first 7 games of the season, we are on track for an even lower 54 point finish. But if we keep up our form since Boxing Day 2020 we are on track for a 66 point finish and in danger of troubling the top four. If we keep up our form since we brought in the new defence we are on track for a 84 point finish.

      1. A manager is hired to get the best of players in hand. It is not possible to change an entire team at one go, neither will such players be available even in a few years. Arteta bought 9 players on his recommendation, and resigned some misfits he insisted on. So guess, compulsive buying, is also a buying time argument or mechanism of the incompetent

        1. 👆🏽👆🏽

          With the exception of Emile, Bukayo, Auba and Tierney, 7 of the 11 starters were players that were signed under Mikel.

          His team. No excuses.

          1. No question it’s his team now, never said otherwise.

            “So guess, compulsive buying, is also a buying time argument or mechanism of the incompetent” No, we had to rebuild.

  6. Nothing here to disagree with really, thanks for your thoughts Tim.

    At the moment we are unable to use the ball as well as we need to. We need too many players back to keep possession in our own half. So it’s easy for a team like Brighton to pressure us and create choke points, cutting off our supply lines as we try to play out.

    I like our MFs, Thomas is smart and dynamic but I am still pining for a really world class player in there who has calmness and authority on the ball. Xhaka is the closest we’ve got and we missed him.

    Sometimes I think we are looking to get up the field too quickly. That little sequence of passes that released ESR was glorious, but if it’s not on then we have to be able to hold the ball and move into a second phase of possession – then a third, and a fourth if necessary, waves of movement.

    And when we went long, everything bounced about 10 yards off Auba, we won a few lucky second balls but that’s not a sustainable way to create chances.

    1. If we’re stock taking, transfermarkt gives the following managers’ points per match (ppm), including a couple of old timers for comparison:

      – Guardiola 2.32
      – Tuchel 2.15
      – (Ferguson @ United 2.06)
      – Klopp 2.02
      – (Mourinho @ Chelsea x2, United & Spurs 2.02)
      – (Wenger @ Arsenal 1.95)
      – (Emery @ Arsenal 1.85)
      – (Pochettino @ Spurs 1.84)
      – Espirito Santo 1.83
      – Solskjaer 1.83
      – Arteta 1.82
      – Rodgers 1.75
      – Bielsa 1.72
      – Moyes 1.58
      – Smith 1.46

      1.82 ppm under Arteta equates to 69 points per season, which would put us in the top 3 so I’m not sure why we keep on finishing 8th.

      1. “1.82 ppm under Arteta equates to 69 points per season, which would put us in the top 3 so I’m not sure why we keep on finishing 8th.”

        err… even by this less than perfect measure, there are 5 current EPL managers ahead of Mikel, and that means that if you projected theirs as well, he’d finish 6th. You cant simply project Mikel’s alone, than look at the last table and conclude we’d finish third.

        And if those are career averages (are they?), I think you’ll find that West Ham Moyes has outperformed his in the time that Arteta has been a manager.

        I think that Mikel bought himself a significant amount of time with the NLD win, and as I said afterwards, if he builds on that, it could be a turning point. This game is hard to assess in the big scheme of things. Potter out-coached him, schooled him on the day. That’s fine, that’s football. Mikel is going to get one over a more venerated coach. Where Arteta has us at Christmas is a better indicator of whether he’s overcoming his failings.

        Im not cutting him any slack. He has no European football to distract him, spent the most money last window, and has overseen considerable churn in his nearly 2 years at the helm. This is HIS team. Im absolutely not buying that he doesnt have the “key players” that he wants.

        1. On the finishing third thing, you’re right I was joking / being facetious.

          On Moyes, no that’s from his current stint at West Ham only.

          On Arteta having his key players now, sure, agreed, nobody said otherwise (at least I didn’t).

          Agreed on your conclusions as well, people seem to think I think Arteta’s a genius, I think he’s OK to good and I hope for better than that.

          I just shared the data because I think it’s interesting. Points per match of course doesn’t take club wealth and starting position into account so it’s not fair to compare, say, Guardiola with Moyes, or even Arteta with Moyes. But it does show that over two years, (in a lockdown, undergoing a rebuild and with 0 prior experience), Arteta’s at least keeping pace – not miles behind Wenger and in terms of raw ppm, better than some managers who he often gets compared to.

          You can still think he’s not good enough, or not right for the club, or too defensive, or boring, no problem. I didn’t like Emery and Arteta’s doing slightly worse than him, which is not so good for me.

      2. Dude.. he very clearly isn’t getting 1.82 ppg – he’s a 1.6ppg manager (extrapolates to ~61 pts). That 1.82 is across all matches and includes his very lucky run in the FA Cup.

        Wenger was a 1.97 ppg manager in the Premier League.

        FYI: Unai Emery was an 1.85 ppg manager at Arsenal, 1.73 ppg in the Premier League. And he’s won the Europa League again and has Villareal playing good football in the Champions League. I don’t know how he’s doing it in such a short time, normally a manager needs two to three years to get a team playing well.

          1. No need to apologize. Transfermarkt can be a bit confusing but if you drill down into the manager’s matches you get a page where you can filter by competition.

            Arteta isn’t proving to be a good coach at the moment. I hope he turns it around, not for his sake but for ours because I can’t believe we were just comprehensively outplayed by a team with one of the lowest wage bills in the League.

            I just can’t understand how anyone watched that match and didn’t come away infuriated at the manager.

          2. Ah and I didn’t filter by competition for any of them, which might be why I had Wenger at 1.95 not 1.97

  7. Tim said: Arteta admitted that Brighton were the better team, better organized, and better pressing, but blamed his players instead of his own incompetence.

    Greg said: Nothing here to disagree with really, thanks for your thoughts Tim

    I said: Arteta’s whole spiel is relying on individual quality and blaming the lack thereof when it doesn’t work.

    Greg said: There’s nothing in his post-match statement after the Brighton game that blames the players

    So ummm… Ok I guess.

    Thanks for your response Greg. You’re free to bristle at mention of Arteta’s failings rather than the failings themselves. Cheers.

    1. Thanks Shard, for putting all arguments in order against each other. It leaves no latitude for arguments.

    2. Sorry Shard, you’re right.

      I’ve read the OP more closely and I do disagree. Tim did say both that Arteta was incompetent and that he blamed the players, and I don’t agree with either statement.

      From what I read, Tim’s post is almost entirely about what Brighton did that was good to restrict our play, and noted that the Arsenal players weren’t good enough to beat their pressure or their man-to-man marking, didn’t win any pressures themselves, noted how Ramsdale going long meant we couldn’t keep possession and left the team (sorry, left “Mikel Arteta”) relying on individual bits of brilliance. I agree with all of that, it’s a good summary.

      The incompetence bit didn’t stick with me sorry, because I put it down to hyperbole, and because there’s actually nothing in the post to explain what Arteta did that was so incompetent. Unless of course we take it for granted that anything bad on the pitch is down to his incompetence, and anything good is down to the players / sheer dumb luck.

      I agree that the performance was poor. I’ve moaned about it already in a couple of comments, including a couple of things I think the manager got wrong (Saka’s positioning, picking Auba over Laca, getting too vertical in the passing). I think I’ve come up with more actual mistakes than either you or Tim.

      In the post-match interview Arteta was right, I agree with all of it. I don’t think he’s ducking his share of responsibility, where in that quote is he saying it was all the players’ fault? Meanwhile, if you’re trying to start a narrative here I can also point to literally dozens of examples of him either defending or praising his players when we haven’t played well, or taking full responsibility for defeats. He’s no Mourinho.

      I really, really didn’t like Emery but I tried to keep my comments as balanced as possible, and always tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. I get tired of pure dislike masquerading as thoughtful opinion. There’s enough fair criticism to go around so when I see criticism that I think is unfair, I tend to say so. That’s all.

      Cheers

      1. You mean you tend to get your snark on.

        I make no claim to being any more objective than the next guy. If anything I’m pretty open about how I feel about Arteta, both as a coach, and from what I can see of him, as a person.

        Look at what you, a paragon of fairness, are saying to me though because I dared express my opinion of him and where we are/likely to be. Words like masquerade and trying to start a narrative.

        We both watch the same interviews, both watch the same games. It’s fine if you don’t think he’s constantly making excuses and hiding from responsibility even as he says those words. But if you really believed he takes responsibility, your reaction to him being blamed wouldn’t be so aggressive, and you wouldn’t conveniently put it all mostly down to player quality. Maybe you aren’t as fair as you seem inclined to believe.

        And yes, you opened the door to the motivations of the people here being questioned, so I’m doing that to you.

        I don’t pick apart each game. Frankly I can no longer be bothered to watch them that closely let alone re-watch to try and analyse it. But there’s trends and patterns to both our football and our manager’s utterances that I see. You have a problem with me stating that? Well, tough. I have a problem with having to watch that brand of football and then be sniped at for expressing it.

        1. Fair enough Shard, for what it’s worth you’re reading a level of hostility and sarcasm into my posts that I don’t feel, but I will moderate my tone if it helps.

          I’m genuinely sorry that you hate the manager of your football team, that sucks.

          I’ve said plenty of times when I think the team or the manager sucked and I will say it again. I’ll also disagree when I think others are being unfairly critical if I want to, and I won’t feel bad about that, sorry.

          You can take it personally if you want, but I’d obviously prefer if you didn’t.

          1. “I’m genuinely sorry that you hate the manager of your football team, that sucks.”

            LOL. This comes right after you said you would moderate your tone.

            Anyway gang, I got to run. I’m tired of talking about this team. Keep it civil, please.

          2. I don’t hate the guy, I just think he’s insincere, manipulative, and really kind of a ****.

            For instance, anyone seen Wilshere in training yet? I mean, firstly, if the door was always open Jack wouldn’t have gone to train at Como and then have this play out in the media. But it’s been what, 3 weeks now since Arteta said the ‘right’ things in the presser? Hey, maybe he’ll show up during the intl break now. Jack’s been saying nice things on the TV about his managerial ability.

            I don’t mind you disagreeing. I mind the way you responded to me. That, I took personally, but it’s not like I’m going to hate you either going forward Greg. We’re fine. Just as long as you don’t try and jump down my throat again.

      2. “The incompetence bit didn’t stick with me sorry, because I put it down to hyperbole, and because there’s actually nothing in the post to explain what Arteta did that was so incompetent.”

        It seems to me that you didn’t read the article.

        “When a team presses the way that Brighton did, you need to have excellent patterns of play, well drilled into your team to counter their pressure.”

        I very clearly tell what Arteta needs to do in the article. He’s been at the club 18 months and we still have few to no patterns of play in possession. It’s a pathetic failure. If he was at Spurs I would be laughing my ass off at them appointing him and begging them to keep him. I’m not eager to see another 8 months of this mess.

        1. Sorry Tim, I guess you mean that we didn’t have well drilled, excellent patterns of play.

          I mean that’s fair enough, we didn’t obviously have those, and Arteta basically said as much after the game.

          Does that make the manager incompetent? I thought by incompetence you would mean something like he completely messed up the selection or the formation. Do incompetent managers draw and keep a clean sheet against Brighton playing well? A team that was this best in the league last season for xG against?

          Where’s the mess? It looks pretty organised to me, just not very exciting.

          1. “Do incompetent managers draw and keep a clean sheet against Brighton playing well?”

            This is where we are as a club now. It’s ok for the manager to be comprehensively outplayed by Brighton. This is small club mentality, Greg. This is exactly what Kroenke thinks and what he hopes we will all accept. I can’t accept it. This is not the Arsenal.

          2. Most everything gets assessed in a one-game vacuum here. Regardless of mitigating circumstances, like–
            – playing 6 starters vs Brentford; who now look no fluke.
            – same second CB pairing gets bullied by Lukaku
            – City destroys us; Xhaka remains a dope/RC magnet, pick one.

            Since? Arteta boldly begins blending elements–
            – handing the #1 GK shirt to Ramsdale.
            – signs and immediately starts Tomiyasu.
            – takes 3pts on a parched Turf Moor by loosing Odegaard on Dyche’s pugs.
            – getting it ‘all right’ on a day most of us will remember fondly– for more than a week. A fecking 3-1 joy to behold. My DVR will always have this one queued-to-go…
            – manages to take his fledgling chemistry experiment of mostly 21-22 year-olds into a monsoon against a well-drilled team and pinch a point. I’d have preferred more chances, more possession. But taking that point was more critical than changing tactics to match a team comfortable in their own style– in weather they likely train in.

            Six matches since Mikel’s had his XI, five clean sheets.

            A young team. Not invincible nor CL finalists nor even approaching the 2015-16 Arsenal. A team that has played together less times than we have fingers.

            I’m going to watch the games week-over-week.
            Try not to self-combust doing so.

          3. Want to reply to JW1 comment below but looks like I can’t reply to reply. I agree that us Arsenal fans are now “one game at a time” fans. Watched the whole game and as dreaded after the NLD win I was kind of expecting this kind of game. When Arsenal lost to Brentford, whole blogosphere exploded at “atrocious” Arteta’s team. Turns out they can draw Liverpool, beat high flying West Ham away (turns out nobody talks about them because that initial narrative doesn’t align anymore). Brighton, coached by “brilliant” Potter were beaten by “boring” Arteta team home and away last year. We got loads of new players in, manager may have loads of tactical plans but if players are unable to execute, there is nothing much he can do. Players are still learning patterns of play, understanding each other’s movement etc. I find all the teeth gnashing a waste of energy. I screamed my lungs out for all the wonderful goals we scored against Total hams (our family in-joke) and I screamed my lungs out when Partey was taking pot shots instead of keeping possession (awful game he had). I would have gladly taken a lucky slip through the goal keeper’s hand goal for us. Frankly, all I care about is us winning (fluke or not I don’t care) and if we are unable to win then not losing. Maybe this 1 point will be a big difference in May. Who knows. We should be glad for these tender mercies.

            I have reached a point where I have accepted that this team will give us a roller coaster ride this season. I don’t care a hoot if Kroenke’s spend a gazillion dollars this summer and may have to spend a big stash in January or next summer. I just want to see us try and consistently play flowing, attacking football. If we can do that regularly in later half of this season, I will be mighty pleased. For some other fans, this is probably unacceptable but hey, to each their own.

            @Shard I think using the Wilshere stick to beat Arteta (to validate your opinion of him) is not really so cool. We have no idea about the dynamics of the situation. A reporter puts up a question and what do you expect the manager to say? Sorry he is not allowed to train? You need two hands to clap. Arteta is not Wenger who had control over the whole club in his time. Now Wilshere can easily go to Edu or Venkat to discuss this. I am sure club will welcome the PR for giving local boy support. You can kick his ass for all the footballing reasons. That is fair play.

          4. And as if on cue, today The Athletic reports that Arteta made a statement that Wilshere is training with Arsenal. @Shard as I said in the post above, don’t let personal opinion colour your judgement on all matters.

            We all our Arsenal fans and each of has right to our opinion. Nobody is wrong. I know you passionately hold on to the classy values Wenger had and Arsenal were synonymous with it while he was around. Since then, the club has basically binned that whole philosophy in so many ways. With Arteta, I really don’t want to judge him on non-footballing issues right now. For me, there are a whole lot of footballing issues which he needs to improve on. Like a young player is given time and numerous chances, we need to give a young coach similar leeway. All I want is to see this team improve. If later this season we are still playing games like at Brighton, then we will definitely know that Arteta has not improved either himself or the team and his time at the club is up. But till then I will not get too worked up

          5. To be fair, it looks like Wenger himself has binned his values with his recent “charm campaign” for the biennial World Cup.

  8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0aTF8GuZSE

    I think it’s also possible that Brighton ain’t that bad a team, their start to the season would certainly indicate that. They’re our new rivals. Their record thus far is proving they’re on a good run of form.

    Did you mention the weather? A soaked field makes crisp movement impossible and would have favored their heavier players. Good playing conditions might have moved the needle in our direction.

    Not letting Arteta off the hook… we’re doing well defensively because our positional discipline is solid. But that discipline equates to positional rigidity. There’s very little exchange of positions, very few overloads in central areas, not a lot of dynamism. A lot of Emery-esque dribbling towards passing targets because no one is coming to the ball in the final third. As such, we’re pretty reliant on counter-attacking for our offense. In that regard, Arteta hasn’t evolved since our FA Cup run.

    1. They had plenty of crisp movement and their players aren’t that much bigger/heavier than ours.

  9. This game had the makings of a letdown written all over it. Young team, coming down from the NLD and traveling to face BHA whose results have been good (albeit better than XG). We were lucky to get the 1 point. Doesn’t excuse Arteta, who should have known this.

    Worried that Odegaard had such a terrible day. It reminded me of those games where teams would target Ozil, roughing him up, and he’d just fade into the background (much as I adored him) We’re about to see how Martin O responds to the physicality of the PL. He’s much stronger than Ozil, but is he strong enough? This will be the template for our opponents going forward.

    I think we are going to have to wait a full season before KSE make a decision about Arteta. He won’t be bad enough to sack, but he won’t be good enough to get us top 4. We will be battling for top 6, and we will show enough bright spots to let him continue to learn on the job. it’s just where we are now.

    He’s a high floor/low ceiling manager. Muddle Through FC. That said, I will repeat my mantra: The next manager has a solid young core to build on.

  10. Arsene’s top 4 teams always included at least a couple of star players in the attack that he could build the team around. Henry, Pires, Fabregas. Van Persie, Ozil, Cazorla, Sanchez and he used players like Ox and Iwobe to build around those “star” players. Saka, ESR and Odegaard are good players but they are on pace for about 15 total combined league goals in the season which is similar to their career productivity. Right now our best attacking players that we are trying to build around are ESR and Saka and they have productivity levels that is roughly similar to Ox and Iwobe. Auba was a star a couple years ago and we spent $75M on Pepe in hopes of getting the next Sanchez but right now we don’t have star players upfront. Like it or not this is a mid table squad who will have a few really good games but mostly depend on its defense to get results. That is the reality of our situation. We had a miserable start to the season but are currently in 11th place and I suspect we will end up somewhere around 7th or 8th place again. You can make a strong argument that we have spent a lot of money but have done a poor job of rebuilding our attack. Not even Arsene or any other manager can turn a team whose best attacking players are similar to Ox and Iwobe into a top 4 contender.

    1. One of the main charges against Arteta is that he has turned star players into ones with pedestrian output. Why pay Auba all that money and then refuse to play to his strengths? Why leave Pepé isolated (or benched) all the time?

  11. Arsene tried for about 15 years to turn players like Ox and Iwobe and a couple dozen other high profile prospects into consistent scorers and was never able to come up with a tactical solution that allowed even a single one of them to develop into players who could deliver consistent end product. 100% of Arsene’s top goal scoring players in this century had stopped producing big numbers by their age 32 season. Expecting Arteta find a way to turn back the clock on Auba and find a tactical solution which turns Saka, ESR and Odegaard into consistent scorers when Arsene could never do anything like that seems completely unrealistic.

  12. Last season Auba, Laca and Pepe scored 60% of our 55 goals. Auba is a year older and Laca and Pepe have been replaced in the regular starting line up by 2 players who have never been and do not profile as consistent scoring threats. If you look at the numbers it seems like there is almost no possible way this squad can score enough to compete above the mid table level.

  13. JW1

    ‘Most everything gets assessed in a one game vacuum here’

    Dude, that’s so way off the mark. Many of the posts and comments here discuss patterns and trends. I think you’re confusing this discussion group with other Arsenal forums.

    It’s clear you’re positive and supportive of what Arteta’s doing. But you have to accept some of us aren’t. And we’re all free to share those opinions. Personally I’m not interested in us winning the most clean sheets award or fielding the youngest team award. I’m not content to watch Arsenal flip flop between hiring old pros one Summer then youngsters the next. I’m not content to watch Arsenal play like a team with no ideas when other managers are making much more with their resources. I just want to see attacking football, win football matches and believe in the manager. But I won’t cancel you or get exasperated if you don’t agree with me.

    1. Nice of you to not cancel me (what a shirt term to begin with) while demeaning the aspects I find positive. Tell me the manager, who is available today (or in December)– who will come to Arsenal and make the things happen you want to see– and guarantee your hopes. Conte? Potter? Eddie Howe perhaps? No one is walking in this season without being in the PL sphere– currently– or by a degree.

      BTW? Just what teams are doing so much more with less right now?
      Unless it’s Everton or BHA (Pool, Chelsea, or City dine at a separate table)– the rest of the teams are barely treading water for all their tiptop decisions made recently.

      Also? Is it the ‘royal we’ you are using or speaking for all others?
      Written or unwritten authority?

      1. Arsenal have comfortably outspent both Chelsea and Liverpool over the last five years, so the different table argument feels quite hollow to me. Teams doing more with less: West Ham, Leicester, Brentford, and Brighton. Aston Villa is nipping at our heals. You’ll find examples in other leagues of well run clubs.

        In terms of managers available its rather hard to know which ones with current jobs can be prized away. A few available former PL managers come to mind as being potential improvements but not quite the level a club like Arsenal should demand.

  14. I get the strong impression people think I’m a pompous asshole, so let me lean into that for a moment on this dead thread and I can get banned and we can all move on with our lives.

    Tim: “small club mentality”. That’s pretty insulting if I’m honest. I want us to win. I’m tired of not winning. We’ve been drifting and underachieving for about 15 years and I want to see the process under Arteta or who the fuck ever to take us back to the top of the table. I think he’s the first manager in years who’s actually acknowledged and taken on the culture of complacency at the club, which is the only way we’ll ever get back up there. He doesn’t get a free pass for that, he still needs to be good enough to do it, but it’s a huge undertaking.

    The reason we couldn’t break the Brighton press in our fourth match with a new defence is not because he’s an incompetent coach, and I don’t think that calling him that is accurate, fair or useful.

    Shard: “I don’t hate Arteta, he’s just an insincere, manipulative ****”. LOL, as Tim would say.
    “Pure dislike masquerading as thoughtful opinion” was very pompous of me, but you can see what I mean, right?

    My guess is that you don’t like him because he thinks he’s bigger than the players and he stands up to them. You’re right, he does and it’s long overdue.

    Shard: “We’re fine, just as long as you don’t try and jump down my throat again”. Magnanimity laced with a warning. You were the first one to make your comment about me, not the other way around.

  15. “The reason we couldn’t break the Brighton press in our fourth match with a new defence is not because he’s an incompetent coach, and I don’t think that calling him that is accurate, fair or useful.”

    Here’s what i don’t get: if we can’t play out from the back because reasons, why are long balls to Auba the only other option? Why can’t ramsdale throw the ball to the fullbacks or wide forwards and start a counter? If we have to revert to long balls, why not introduce players who are better at receiving long balls (Pepe, laca) earlier?

    The weather conditions, the height of Brighton’s defence, and Brighton’s lack of attacking threat were all known before the game. Why wasn’t this reflected in the game plan/team selection?

    I get that you want your best 11 out there, but some players are better suited for certain games. It’s also not entirely clear that we started our best 11, but what they see in training, etc etc

    1. Agreed, I thought we reverted to long balls too often and I also thought Laca should have started.

      I’d need to watch the game again but I think it wasn’t all long balls though, we also just couldn’t link up play well either through the middle or down the flanks in the moments when we had options.

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