It’s been an odd 24 hours at Arsenal: we had an interview with the manager in which he seemed to throw the players under the bus, followed by leaked reports in multiple credible news sources that the senior players want to leave the club, followed by an exasperated interview with the manager denying both the quotes in his interview plus all reports of a rift in the dressing room.
Oh, and we beat Chelsea 1-0 at home for the first time since before Tottenham last won a trophy.
First, the reports of Arteta throwing the players under the bus were overblown. When I watched the interview I wasn’t bothered at all by what he said; even if he had questioned the player’s workrate, the reality is that not every player has given 100% this season, but that wasn’t really what he’d said anyway.
The question he was asked was “one of the things you said just then, one of the criteria you said you judge yourself on is by getting the maximum from the players. Do you feel that that has happened this season? That the players have given their maximum?”
His answer was “the majority of them, yes.” When you see the full question (with the caveat that he’s being asked about the criteria which HE should be judged) it’s a pretty straightforward answer: yes, he has been able to get the maximum from the majority of his players. If he’s talking about any failure here, he’s talking about his own failure.
He does go on to say that “some of them you can get to a certain level and cannot push them further.” Again, I believe he’s answering the first question which was “how do you judge yourself this season, have you done everything, have you gotten the maximum from your team” and he’s answering that he’s tried but hasn’t been successful.
This was then chopped down by almost every news outlet into “do you feel the players have given their maximum” and him answering “the majority of them, yes.”
I managed to catch the SkySports segment and it is exactly how you’d imagine: gotcha journalism at its worst. The presenters raising eyebrows, smirking, and saying that Arteta claimed the players have reached their limit and can’t get any better, then jumping to cut video from the press conference to make it look like Arteta said these things, and that his conclusion was “to improve the team, we need some resources.”
It’s the perfect little story for them because after the match, Arteta was furious. This in turn allows them to do a segment called “furious Arteta denies claims players aren’t good enough.” Which they spin into questions this weekend, which can spin into reports this summer, and so on. Bad journalism thrives on this type of sensationalism.
But Arteta also isn’t 120% innocent in all of this. He did say that the squad needs freshening. “The squad needs changing.” he said. “There were already a lot of changes in December, something that has not been done in years, but it tells us where we were. Things are going to have to change and the owners are going to back it up.” Again, like the quote above we all know this has to happen but you can’t really expect the players not to hear that coming from the manager, a few days after a heartbreaking loss to Unai Emery, after giving 100% to Arteta and his non-negotiables, and not feel a tinge of “hey, fuck you.”
So it isn’t a great surprise that a few days later there were several credible reports that a number of senior players want out. This actually seemed to be the main thing he was reacting against in his post-Chelsea interview when he said:
Nothing is broken. Inside nothing is broken. I don’t know how hard they are going to try from the outside but inside, no. They’ve tried to put things on me that I never said. You can see the spirit of the team from the first minute, it doesn’t matter if we’re playing to be seventh, eighth or ninth, you can see that. You can never doubt their efforts and how much they try.
Sorry, but it’s hard not to believe those stories. Arteta has a history, already, of running players out of the club. All managers do! It would be unbelievable if every player was 100% happy at Arsenal. Not just because of the league position, but also because the coach is very demanding, requires players to do things that they may not agree with, has players playing out of position, makes weird substitutions, and has gotten a number of things wrong tactically this season.
And it’s natural for players to show that frustration and even for some of them to go to their friends in the press and voice that frustration.
For example, Aubameyang was not pleased to be taken off in the 79th minute of Arsenal’s 1-0 win over Chelsea. That was clear. He walked off slowly. He shook his head. Arteta avoided him, choosing to speak to his assistant about something instead. Auba went to the bench and sat, looking disconsolate.
Auba is frustrated and Auba is the Arsenal captain. But on the flip side Auba also did everything the coach asked: he was 2nd in the team in pressures (24) and he played so deep in the Arsenal half for most of the match that his heatmap looks more like a left wing-back than Arsenal’s lone center forward:
He had a mere 26 touches, and received just 20 passes (of 44 sent his way because he was under pressure from three players every time a pass was sent his way – Lacazette received just 1 of 9), and of his 26 touches he created the only goal of the game. Which he celebrated with true joy.
No player is happy being taken off and we don’t want our highest paid player happy to be subbed off. This looked very much like the same sort of physical affectation that we have all seen from someone when they are upset and they want everyone to know how upset they are.
The reality is that a lot of different things can be true at the same time. Arteta can say that everything is great in the dressing room, he can get angry with Sky, and even the players can say that everything is fine but there can still be players who aren’t fine, who do want out, and who don’t appreciate being made to play defense for 79 minutes and then subbed off.
But in the end, it’s a results-based industry. If you are a striker and you aren’t scoring, assisting, or hustling to help the team then you’re going to be sold or dropped for someone better. If you’re a manager who finishes 10th after £100m in investment and has a string of mediocre results, people are going to wonder if you’re the right man for the job. Midfielders who can’t handle the Premier League get shipped out, guys who think they are better than everyone else or who won’t do what the manager wants go to Hertha Berlin or wherever. Fullbacks who can’t run 11,000m per game, with 200 sprints, play defense, and whip in perfect crosses need to be upgraded. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Some of the players are going to be sold this summer, some players might not like to hear that but that’s how it’s got to be. Arsenal does have players who don’t give 100% sometimes. Arsenal does need new players in certain positions, I mean, we started Bukayo Saka at RWB yesterday with three RBs on the bench and one on loan to West Brom. Arteta probably doesn’t have to actually say “we need new players” and “some guys aren’t giving their all” when he can just make a lineup decision like that!
But he did say that we need to buy new players. Arsenal do need to buy new players. And I believe that some, maybe even a lot, of players are ticked off at Arteta’s management style. Maybe that will work out, and maybe it won’t. If it doesn’t – probably by December or so, depending on the results – then Arteta will be out of a job.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
Nice summary Tim. It’s all a little bit toxic at the moment. A bit of distance never does any harm. Peaceful Summer to you.
Yeah, the chickens have come home to roost now. No one, fans, players, manager, Stan, is probably happy with where we’ve ended up this year. I’m certainly not.
And Arteta, as the most public voice for the club, is going to get the worst of that. Most of the time, he probably knows that.
The Auba/Arteta thing at the end of the match was not a good look. Appeared to me to be a little more than a striker wanting to stay on. Hopefully that’s it, as we can ill afford another Ozil situation, or even further weakening our scoring.
Firstly, I wouldn’t call Der Heil, Brexpress, Nazi Daily Telewag and S*N reliable sources at all.
Secondly, the idiot on Sky stirring it all up should be banned from Arsenal FC for life. Does he talk to Klopp, Pep, Rodgers etc. like that? Arty gave him a very good answer first up, then this moron keeps going back to it, accusing Arteta of driving the interview towards the media scum, rather than the game.
Smart Arse kept asking if “everything is broken over and over” – WTAF!!! Maybe he was point scoring because Arty never mentioned Dylan at all.
I felt for Arteta – I think he was extremely well behaved. I for one would have just walked away from the interview, because it was a personal attack on the manager, not a discussion about the game we had just seen.
On journalism:
My father grew up in a village where he had very little. I remember seeing a picture of him as a kid and I used to laugh at it, but as I grew, I learned to appreciate the struggle he got through. The picture actually showed him wearing trousers that were torn at the knees and a worn out jersey, which were his best clothes. If you took a picture, you had to look your best and that was his best.
Another picture I saw of him as a teenager was one of him debating. He has always had a love for words, debates, poetry and reading. He loved it so much that, even if he couldnt afford books and there was no library, he collected chewing gum wrappers, Chappies, that people would throw away. The wrappers had and still have “Did you know” facts written on the inside of them. That was how he learned to read and write English, and used debates to learn how to speak.
As he grew, he had dreams of becoming a journalist. He did all he could to get material to learn English. He even lied about his age to be able to work on a farm, so that he could afford books.
He was a very bright young man and passed high school with flying colours. I remember meeting a man who went to school with him, and apparently, he was nicknamed “Starboy” (He hates that nickname for some reason). What he did not have though was the finances to go and study what he had always dreamt about, Journalism.
Not only did he not have the means to study what he dreamt of studying, but he also had to prioritise his family. In our culture, you fix home before you can start building your life. Family is a very big part of our lives. Bursaries were being handed out for aspiring teachers at the time, so he decided to go the teaching route (teaching languages of course).
He became a teacher and started inspiring many young people, many of whom are highly influential people now. He was being paid well and his life was going well, but through all that time, he still had a fire burning inside him. He could have dropped his passion to the side and focused on what he was becoming successful in. But journalism was his dream and he couldn’t let it go.
During his time in college, he studied his own modules on teaching, but also attended journalism classes, he read books all the time and really put the library to use. He was in heaven, and as soon as he got a job, he started writing to newspapers as a guest columnist. He wrote every week. He spent the whole week doing research on whatever he would write about and then wrote very detailed articles. It might seem like he was just fulfilling his dreams, but I learned years later that he was actually building a portfolio of articles. Every Sunday I would walk about 4km to buy newspapers that he appeared in.
The same year I started grade school, my dad started his Bachelors degree in journalism. He was still teaching and since we it was just us two, he was always occupied. I remember him sending me to school with a poem instead of food for lunch (I am still mad at that one). The man was obsessed, but he was passionate.
His articles later caught the attention of some government officials and he was hired as a speech writer. During his time in government, he rose almost bi-annually. He kept impressing people with his use of language, in english or our mother tongue. Speeches invariably imbued with humour, detail and sincerity. He is really good man, he really is.
As with most people who are very good at something, he got bored and annoyed at being taught by those he deemed to be beneath him (his lecturers) and he just stopped doing his degree. He felt that journalism isn’t writing for a newspaper, magazine or other forms of media. He considered it an art, an art that came with a duty and responsibility to inform with honesty, in a way that people can understand, but it always has to be honest and with integrity. He likes saying that a country falls when comedians and journalists are compromised, he thinks he is both (he is not the former in person, but his writing is).
Funny thing is that I am actually doing the job the he wanted so bad, and its not my passion. I love accounting, auditing and taxation, so I am building in a similar way to get there through journalism. But I am different to him because I witnessed the work he put into each and every one of his articles. This was a guest columnist who was nit getting paid, but put in effort like he owned the paper himself.
I respect journalism so much, and it hurts to see these little tricks to generate interest. In the world of football, with all the stats in the world available to these people, replays, highlights, access to players and managers, but I see no passion for this. I see no effort to analyse football, and no sincerity or respect in comments made. Maybe I have a high standard of how journalism should be, but this is not it. Creating further stories is unbecoming of this profession and drags this very important profession further down. It hurts, it really does. I don’t really have the best relationship with my dad, but his journey has always inspired me. His actions and experiences have made me respect effort, hardwork and a genuine passion for whatever it is you are doing, especially writing/reporting.
On 7amkickoff:
I do not partake in social media, It found me at the wrong time and since then, I have seen how it has negatively affected people. But I come here, regularly. Why? Two reasons.
Reason one? Tim, that’s why. He writes to be better at writing and you see the effort he puts in. I learn from this posts and my English has improved greatly from reading here. Beyond that is post like this one where you put in the effort to see things from different perspectives, understand different motives and opinions, but in making your point, you never vilify anyone, Ok maybe a few. But you always give credit where it’s due and never really write to stir up anyone. It’s highly appreciated, and if you have not heard this before, I will it now.
“Your writing just keeps getting better and better”
The other reason? Everyone of you who comments here. There are so many words that I have looked up because you are able to debate and states your points well, and so articulately. I thank all of you for not posting out of spite or for attention. You genuinely love Arsenal and have your own points of view, which you respectfully disagree on.
+1 Devlin. This is one of your finer posts. Make sure you take time to express this (your admiration) to your father. Give people flowers while they can enjoy them.
+1 lovely comment/story, Devlin. I don’t often comment on here but I’m a long time lurker (fellow South African) and really enjoy your input.
Yayyyy another Saffa!
Devlin.
Hope you tell the guy how much you appreciate him
I feel fortunate to be a part of this community and hear insights about football – but more so about life – from people like you here Devlin. I have learned so much hearing about your life experience. My thanks to you!
Folks, I want Arteta to stay and manage this team because I believe in the type of football, atmosphere and belief that I think he can create. I backed Wenger when I felt he was being unfairly blamed for everything and I did the same for Unai, and now I’m doing it for Arteta. I never really believed Unai was a good fit for us but to listen to some of the commentary you’d think he’s some thug we pulled off the street. He’s a gifted, albeit conservative tactician and a limited communicator, especially in English. I thought Wenger had a really tough time of it from us fans towards the end too, as if he could snap his fingers or something. He squeezed every last drop of juice out of that squad on a shoestring budget for as long as possible. The frustration we felt for the club’s stagnation was hung around his willing shoulders but the issue was really the recruitment and investment strategies and the squad falling farther and farther behind its rivals as a result.
On the other hand, I have always supported Arteta because I believe he is the kind of person who can both instruct and inspire at a high level. I believe in what could be under his tenure. There is nothing any of you can say to shake that belief. You have to be a visionary to achieve great things and that is the opposite of reactionary. Firing him now would be reactionary and at best put us back to square one. Uncertainty galore. New tactics, new relationship, new everything, and every chance that it doesn’t work out. Keeping Arteta gives us a chance to build on the good things we have seen this season, build continuity, build trust, and solidify this foundation. It’s a no brainer. By keeping him, I’m not buying into finishing 8th, I’m betting on him to lead us to greater things. I thought that would be obvious.
Arteta is smart enough to see a media trap a mile off, and is well-spoken. He probably aced his recruitment interview. He didn’t, as Tim shows, say anything controversial. ‘Arsenal in Crisis’ stories are part of a long-running box office hit in the British media, and he’s generally navigated that tricky terrain well. You be the judge of whether telling it like it is about players in public is a good thing.
Giving Arteta till Christmas to show improvement (apparently) is more than fair. Not seeming to be too reactionary, but at the same time showing the coach that he didnt perform in his job at the level that a cub of Arsenal’s pedigree expects. He’s lucky to get such a lifeline, all things considered. Better coaches with better results have been fired much sooner.
We shouldnt get too wedded to the idea of not changing a coach, to preserve some notion of so-called stability. Leicester changed a title winning coach, and embarking on a road that ran through Claude Puel, eventually ended up with a pretty good one in Brendan Rodgers. He has a less gifted squad than the one at Arteta’s disposal, and they’re hunting Top 4. I did enjoy Newcastle’s and Joe Willock’s demolition of them though.
Given how important the transfer activity at the end of the season will be, can we really afford to give Mikel till December? The only 2 ways I see him staying is either the rebuild does not start till the season after or management still has faith that he is the man for the long term.
The debate is moot, because it looks like he’s staying anyway, but this is also my issue.
I caveat – like I think almost every poster – that I really did / do want Arteta to succeed. Leaving aside the fact that I don’t particularly like the style of what I am coming to see as Arteta-ball, there is a reasonable argument to giving him an extra half a season – references to the same situation for OGS at Man Utd, JW1’s pointing out of the results since Boxing Day etc.
However, it’s not really just another half season is it? First and foremost if it goes pear-shaped then that’s likely the whole season written off (not everyone will have Tuchel’s turnaround touch – and that’s said while the hard reality is that Chelsea will be in the Europa League next year if they don’t win the next two PL games, or the final against City).
And secondly, we will apparently have a lot of in and out transfer business over the summer, including a number of key decisions over long term contracts / extensions for players. Very few of us can honestly say yet that we trust Edu 100%; Garlick hasn’t even started yet; and therefore Arteta (promoted from coach to manager, remember) is going to likely have the biggest say.
So basically we’re going to asking a guy who’s on probation for 6 months and therefore hugely biased to the short term to make decisions for the medium to long term. And also asking him to convince players to join us, knowing no European football and a coin toss as to whether Arteta will even be at the club in 6 months time. Whether you’re in emotional sport or hard headed business, who honestly thinks that’s a great idea?
As I say, it’s moot but it’s also a lot bigger gamble than just saying “it’s only half a season”.
Another superb post Tim. IMO Episode V The Empire Strikes Back is the best of the Star Wars series and still one of my all time favorite movies.
While I think fans almost always over rate the talent of the players I am not going to try and debate the overall talent and technical skill level of players on this squad because that is purely subjective. However, I think its very clear to everyone this squad lacks goal scoring talent and no matter how you dissect the tactics or strategy you can’t take a team with a group of players who have hardly ever scored in their entire careers and expect them to score enough to compete for a top 6 position over a 38 game season. No matter how much technical skill and talent we have, losing more then 1/2 of Auba’s production this season was a devastating blow to any chance we had to finish above mid table. Football does not work that way. We made a deep run in the Europa league but we were forced by injury and illness to put out a starting 11 in the first leg of the semifinal that had scored a whopping total of 12 league goals in the entire season and probably around 20 league goals in their entire careers. You can dissect formations and tactics all you want during but expecting the manager to find a tactical strategy to compensate for that lack of scoring is not realistic. Managers are not miracle workers. Arteta has clearly done an excellent job of improving our team defense. Overall, I think he has done about as well as could be expected given the lack of firepower in this squad.
i’ve never seen someone so categorically wrong argue a point so vehemently.
if arsenal were creating good chances and missing them, your argument would be legit. however, arsenal don’t create many good chances and it’s the reason why arsenal aren’t score many goals, not the “fire power”.
how many chances did arsenal create against chelsea the other day? they didn’t even create the chance that led to their goal; they got lucky due to a poor back pass by jorginho.
arsenal has the one of the best goal scorers in world football playing a bunch of defense. it’s not his fault that he’s not scoring more. if arsenal had a front line of prime messi, lewandowski, and cristiano and the coach’s strategy required them to do as much defending as arteta does, you’d still cry about how much arsenal “need more fire power”. tim made the point about auba’s heat chart looking like he was a left wing back when he was a center forward. someone else even mentioned messi playing right back because he’d be required to do so much defending under arteta. but you’re sticking to your non-soccer, money ball approach.
i’m not having this discussion with you anymore. everyone else has already dismissed you as reasonable stopped responding to you months ago. i gave you the benefit of the doubt. now, i’m going to follow suit. good luck.
Good for you Josh (and your blood pressure). It was me who mentioned playing Messi at right back (and Ronaldo at LB).
Adding up numbers works in a sport like baseball, because the contributions made by players are isolated. Football (like chess) on the other hand is a collaborative game. Making the right moves is as important, or perhaps more, as having the right pieces. To engage with an argument that fails to grasp this basic concept is futile.
Someone in Reddit put it more eloquently: “ Arteta has his players playing like shit so that he can complain how shit they are when results don’t go well” .
“ Arteta has his players playing like shit so that he can complain how shit they are when results don’t go well” .
Ok, while this is hilarious I think it’s more accurate to say:
-Arteta’s goal is to make Arsenal hard to beat
-To do that he plays a defensive style which prioritizes positional defense over most other aspects of the game
-He does ask the players to press high, but only for a few minutes
-Once pressure is broken they are all (everyone) instructed to defend like World War I
-Counters are acceptable, but only after a specific pattern of play and with great caution
-Take-ons, as little as possible
-Tackles, only when necessary
-Pressure is ok, as long as you don’t get too far out of position
-Overlaps and midfield runs are ok if everyone is in position to defend
-If we get behind, the players are allowed to attack more (overlaps, run behind)
Athletico Madrid of London?
I wonder if this is ArtetaBall or it’s transitional.
doc, it seems to me that you’re basing a blind faith in arteta exclusively on hopes and dreams. i don’t question his desire, i question his ability. there’s no evidence that supports he’s capable of getting the most out of these players. he took over a team in 8th place and didn’t improve them. this season, he’s moved a lot of players and guess what? arsenal are 9th and still not playing good football.
what makes you believe he can instruct and inspire at a higher level? what good are you talking about that you’ve seen this season that you want arteta to build on? i’ve seen a manager who can’t get arsenal into europe. he has this big club playing cowardly football against other big clubs like we saw on wednesday. who wants to see that in the champions league?
like i said, i don’t question his desire, i question his ability.
All the things that got him appointed in the first place plus my belief and the players belief in the culture he’s building. I have hardly seen a manager accomplish so much good in so little time. The results will follow. The foundation must be first. Consider:
-convinced key players to buy in
-convinced key players to stay on (Aubameyang!)
-convinced key young talent to stay on (Saka!)
-together with Edu recruited an outstanding midfielder (Partey)
-convinced disillusioned squad members to buy in (Xhaka)
-oversaw the emergence of Smith-Rowe and Saka
-together with Edu ended the Ozil fiasco, not of his making
-has received nothing but praise from people inside the club who actually work with him
-oh yeah and he won the FA Cup
I’d say that’s a decent start. I shudder to think where we’d be without him.
Also what JW said about our record since the new year. Also our record vs the “top 4”
Fair points. But…
apart from the addendum, it looks to me as if youre awarding the coach high marks for doing the minimum expected of any coach, or stuff that he couldnt claim credit for.
– We should reasonably expect any manager to do 1 and 2.
– I cant see how recruiting Partey is an argument in favour of retaining Mikel. Partey has actually been playing worse of late, none more so than when the coach asked him to patrol the vast acreage of the midfield by himself. As Tim and others have pointed out about the service to Auba, what good is there retaining the services of your elite forward, if you’re tactically miscasting him?
– Unai Emery give Saka his break and breakthrough and oversaw his emergence, a process that continued under Freddie (who worked with him from very young) and Mikel. Bukayo was pretty much a first teamer by the time time Mikel arrived.
The FA Cup win (beating some good teams on the way) and his record against the Top 6 are strong and unarguable points in Arteta’s favour. You have to give Jack his jacket there.
But to me the management of the 2 legs against Villareal serves to wipe out a lot of the good. That was as bad and as tactically inept as Arsenal have looked in a long time. In a game in that demanded that they show tactical flair and urgency.
You can always quibble with who gets credit but if we are blaming him for results then it’s only fair to laud him for accomplishments too.
Against Villareal, He got it wrong in a big game, for sure. I can live with mistakes if I believe in the direction.
your list is cute but none of that has anything with the football arsenal play. the question remains; what has arsenal done on the football pitch under arteta that’s convinced you that he can make arsenal a top european power again?
let me be clear; i don’t care too much for the fa cup win or the clown-shoe europa league performance. cup competitions are a poor barometer for the quality of your team. i care about how good arsenal are. arsenal are currently 9th in the premier league, trailing teams that have inferior rosters.
the quality on display based on his training methods and strategies is what i’m looking at. after a season and a half, it says to me that arteta is not the man. throw me a bone, doc. help me see what you see when you watch arsenal play that suggests that he’s on the right track to making arsenal better.
The product on the pitch is not 100% reflection of a managers abilities, nor are results. It’s also impossible to tell because we can’t go back in time, replace him with a different manager and run the simulation again holding all else constant. How many times have we had this debate?
That said, Tim outlines Arteta’s style well in a post above. It’s safety first, which is totally reasonable. We’ve managed to concede less than 40 goals in a season for the first time in… well maybe we won’t finish on 38 conceded but that’s where we are now and it’s better than MPs of our direct rivals. The issue is goals scored, and he can’t put the ball in the back of the net himself. He could loosen the reins but then we’d almost certainly leak goals. I’m sure you’ll agree that to win football matches you first have to keep the back door shut. He’s done that well. The team has an identifiable structure and direction in both phases. Maybe it’s looks rigid right now but that’s where reps and continuity are absolutely needed. Any style takes time and becoming fluid and sharp with movement on and off the ball requires not only quality but familiarity and repetition.
Sure the Villareal game looked ugly but he was also missing Odegaard and Aubameyang and tried to get too fancy. And that’s a disciplined team that knows exactly who they are and what they had to do. Arsenal aren’t there yet and I blame discontinuity and poor recruiting for that. I see Arteta doing his best with what he has and getting it mostly right.
as manager, arteta is 100% responsible for the product on the field. it’s his duty to ensure the players are prepared, physically and mentally, to execute a game plan he’s created, based on their qualities, that gives them the best chance to win each game, including contingencies. that’s his most important job. all of the other stuff you talk about pales in comparison to the product on the field.
here’s a question for you; how can arteta get the best from the attacking players if he keeps moving them all around? every attacking player has played multiple positions. the level of competition arsenal plays against is too high for arteta to think he can disrespect it and play everyone at multiple positions. his approach has made the arsenal attackers jacks of all trades while their opponents are masters of one trade.
understand, i’m not basing my opinion on a single europa league tie. i’m basing it on the entire campaign. i don’t see the positives that you see.
The product on the pitch is indeed 100% his responsibility but just as a Michelin star restaurant can’t serve caviar without fish eggs from a Russian sturgeon, a football manager can’t serve up champagne football from Sauvignon bland. This tram has been mediocre to poor under him, under Unai, under Freddie and under Wenger. The common thread is not the manager.
Sounds like Luiz is definitely gone this summer. As I’ve said previously, that doesn’t bother me too much. While we could perhaps do with better CBs, it’s not the highest priority to improve this team. We have a fair number of them playing for us, plus Mavro and Saliba.
Interestingly, the Athletic had an article on ManU that had a chart showing which teams allowed the most goals from set pieces this season, the point for that article being that United were poor. Arsenal, very surprisingly to me, were 3rd best.
Beyond that, I guess I’m OK with giving Arteta some more time. I’ve not been particularly happy with some of his decisions, and what seems to be a lot of stubbornness. But this has been a pretty challenging season due to COVID. If we have a few good transfers, and if we have a good preseason, next year should give us a much more accurate view of what he can really do.
i’m kind of torn with david luiz. i certainly didn’t want him to come to arsenal as i’d seen him get routinely destroyed by giroud when arsenal played chelsea, not to mention his participation in the world cup loss to germany. however, seeing his distribution against newcastle, he was able to create so much offense that arsenal had been missing. with that, he’s 34. it’s time for arsenal to move in a new direction.
“Sounds like Luiz is definitely gone this summer.”
PARTY AT MY HOUSE!
Josh @ 6:45AM
Each of us has our own ideas and having the chance to discuss those ideas with others who have different opinions is part of what makes blogging enjoyable. I started following European football around the turn of this century and I did not have preconceived biases about how football should be played and I was able to form my ideas based on what I have seen actually happen on the pitch. Regarding the first paragraph of your comment, I have similar thoughts about your ideas but thats just my own opinion. Creating chances is certainly important but the idea that any player can score if his team has the right creative environment and you don’t need goal players who have regularly scored goals in your squad seems completely off base.
Its easy to criticize Arteta in retrospect but if you look at where we were at the start of this season we expected at least 25 goals from Willian and Auba combined. Instead we got 10. 15 extra goals would put us into contention for a Europa league spot. If you look at history in any professional sport, no can deny there is always risk of players production dropping off in their early 30s but I don’t think anyone could have predicted how much those 2 players production would have decreased below expected. Prospectively, at the start of the season a line up of Auba, Laca, Willian upfront, supported by Saka and Bellerin as wing backs, Partey and Xhaka in central midfield seemed like the best possible or at least close to the best personnel we had available. Unfortunately it didn’t work and we went thru a terrible run of form, Partey was injured and neither Auba or Willian were giving us anywhere near the production we needed. I am not sure any of us would have predicted those negative events prospectively
“….you don’t need goal players who have regularly scored goals in your squad”.
Nobody said that. Nobody made that argument. Nuance, Bill. Nuance. Cant be all sledgehammer, all the time.
And your arguments are too linear. The quality, play and tactics of the opposition have a lot to do with what result you get, irrespective of the lineup that you put on the field here
I am not suggesting that creativity is not important. However, if creating chances and technical skill and creativity and playing a specific type of football were the most important factor that determine outcomes and anyone can score goals if there is enough creativity then it seems like Arsene’s teams should have lead the league in goal scoring in a lot of seasons in the last 15 years. However, we have never lead the league in scoring since 2005 and in theory Arsenal should have won multiple league titles in the last 15 years.
Like many here I’m in many minds. I’m unable to answer key questions. I suspect we’re guilty of woozy thinking regarding the change process and what trust we place in Arteta.
There is no doubt in my mind that we need to get our foundation laid and settled. Our playing style philosophy outlined and communicable. Who’s change process is it though? If the club have fully understood and bought into ‘the process’ they can / should be able to carry it forward themselves. We don’t need an Arteta / manager for that anymore. It has/is taking up too much of his coaching responsibility.
Fire the manager, hire a coach then?
Apart from Odegaard that team against Chelsea were all players I’d expect are staying! Okay, Saka would normally be further up the pitch which would make a diffference. Xhaka, Pepe and Martinelli all available for selection. Still, really not a great look, nothing that makes me long for next season. What can Arteta improve in those players? Persistent lack of creativity all season. He can’t. He needs reinforcement. So, probably two midfielders (amongst s others) need to be brought in, at least one with technical prowess. Can Edu and Garlick (sp?) manage that themselves. If yes, and management owns the change process, what do me need Arteta for?
Find a replacement coach then that plays our type of football with ability to nurture and develop youngsters and build a cohesive squad?
If we were able to do all that, let’s switch our gaze to the pitch and playing style. What do we think? I’ve no idea what Arteta-ball looks like and sadly, I have no real desire to find out. I can no longer imagine Arteta getting us playing in a way I’ve come to expect from an Arsenal team. Bear in mind he is likely to have at best four new players to ignite the spark. No Europe, no guarantee of securing the type and calibre of player we want. Great if the Groenke’s make a strong investment. Still, we may only entice the right type and calibre if we offer high wages. Here we go again. That really brings home to me the failure that is this season. If the club have the blueprint, and believe they can execute it, do we need to keep Arteta as the manager for purely footballing reasons?
Hire an experienced coach who’s sole focus is the team, playing style and winning games?
I like Arteta the passionate, articulate man. I imagine he will be an accomplished coach. Thing is the club desperately need results NOW. The club needs to be ruthless with itself. Any slow-thinking reflection by any one of our owners, Board, CEO, should be causing concerns. Using the traffic light tool to track plan and progress in a change process there a too many amber lights and one or two red lights after 18 months. Are they communicating about that or, like the fans, just trusting the process. As if there were only one! As for the manager? I’m not sensing that he is a reflective type – analytical yes. I’d like to hear from him comments that suggest he has accessed and understood his tenure to date and commitment to changes in his own approach and failings. I’m not hearing anything like that yet. It is a prerequisite for success in my opinion. It is too late to put that off until the end of the process. A wiser, more experienced individual would know that. If he doesn’t manage that reflection or bring in someone who can guide him I have serious doubts about his current ability to get us results now. I do so much want to shake him!
To quote TS Eliot
And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred visions and revisions,
Before the taking of a toast and tea”
We can’t afford more short termism. That’s what landed us with the Ozil situation and quick fixes like Kolasinac and Sokratis. We need a coherent top to bottom investment and recruitment strategy that prioritizes medium to long term success even at the cost of short term losses. No more band aids. I believe that’s exactly the view of the hierarchy at this moment and I’m fully in support.
‘We can’t afford more short termism. That’s what landed us with the Ozil situation’. That’s BS
No, fear of letting a declining player go in false hopes of resurrection led us to the Özil situation. Sound familiar, doc ?
No, it’s not, Doc. As with Aubameyang, after losing Alexis we re-signed someone we regarded and our remaining most valuable player (in footballing terms).
Doc, there’s a glaring contradiction at the heart of your argument. To the extent that you can credibly say that Arteta’s situation is analogous to Ozil’s or Socratis’ or Kolasinac’s (logically, they cant be) Ozil was still doing the business for us… the current manager is not. You yourself argued that at the time (yes, journos like me have long memories). Kolasinac was a free on a good Bundesliga performer in his position. You can argue in hindsight how good he was (great going forward, not so good defensively — something he shares with Hector), how is that a quick fix? He, like Hector, is more WB than RB. As a piece of business, signing the Bosnian made sense.
While the FA Cup win is a persuasive argument in his favour, Arsenal’s slide accelerated under Arteta. This isnt the time for turnaround cowardice, needless conservatism and an aversion to change. And if these are the arguments for sticking with him long-term, well…
Claude, why are you suggesting I’m anti-change? I think we are arguing about the necessity of changing the manager, not the merits of change in general. Clearly, you see him as part of the problem and I see him as part of the solution. Time will prove one of us right.
My point about the players was simply an example of what plug and play quick fixes can look like. More often than not they create more problems long term than they address in the short term.
in fairness, you’ve already stated that you’re arteta through and through and you can’t be moved from your position. okay.
bottom line is that none of your arguments justify the poor football we’ve seen since arteta’s been on board. i can’t even see what he’s trying to do, footballistically. under arteta, arsenal’s football is garbage. everyone who’s at arsenal came to the club to be part of the heritage established around the world and play exciting football.
what happens when arsenal play bad football and finish mid table again next year? chelsea will come for tierney and liverpool for bukayo, and arsenal will be firmly established as a mid-table team, looking behind them instead of forward to champions league football. we’ve seen this movie, doc. it doesn’t take long.
it’s great that arteta has done all of the stuff that you rave about off the pitch. however, that doesn’t relinquish him from his duties ensuring arsenal play good football and contend for the championship. that’s his most important job. if he’s not doing that well, i care little about what else he’s accomplished.
You all said the same things about Unai and Wenger. Three consecutive coaches who play garbage football, are clueless and are setting us back? How is that realistic? The issues run much deeper as you all also keep saying while somehow still pinning most of it on the coaches. I don’t think anyone has a magic wand. Who do you want to appoint, Brendan Rodgers? Do you seriously think that replacing the coach is going to instantly make this group 10 points better in the league? You’re gonna be disappointed when the same issues keep coming up. There are no quick and easy fixes in life or in football, and it’s better to be lucky than good in both.
What are these ‘deeper’ issues doc ? Care to enlighten us ?
back in the arsenal america days, as you may recall, i said wenger didn’t deserve all the credit for the invincibles. however, i’ve never complained about football under wenger. maybe you were talking about someone else.
i did call unai a coward because he is, but at least you could see what he was doing and arsenal were in europe. while i wasn’t a fan of the emery appointment, i did prefer him to arteta.
i don’t expect the manager to produce instantaneous results but, after 18 months, i’d like to see some direction. i’d love to share your optimism. i just don’t see any evidence that says he’s the man to take our beloved club forward. i’d love for my biggest complaint to be that arteta doesn’t wear a suit on match days; mikey looks sharp in a suit. however i can’t ignore what we witness on the pitch. the football is downright boring, ineffective, and has arsenal mired in bpl mediocrity.
lastly, your last statement is easily the worst comment I’ve ever heard from you…and we go way back to when you were still a resident. “it’s better to be lucky than good”? i’m hoping that was a typo because it’s only true on occasion. bottom line, i don’t want a manager depending on luck as his strategy to lead arsenal. if arsenal play good football, they won’t need luck so often.
-lack of interest and investment from board level
-discontinuity and manager and director level
-poor recruitment
-until recently, under productive academy
-letting contracts run down, over paying to keep older players
-buying quick fix 3 star hotel type solutions in multiple positions
-increased quality of opposition with PL TV money
-not having a plan in general since Wenger has been forced out until, hopefully, this past summer and beyond
Amazing how you forget to criticize the board or the recruitment when it doesn’t suit your agenda to blame the struggles of a multi billion enterprise on one man.
Not a typo my man, luck rules in one off football matches. You get a flukey penalty, you probably win. The ball strikes the underside of the bar and either bounces in or it doesn’t and games are determined by that margin. The bounce of the ball determines more outcomes than tactical nuances. That’s why football is unpredictable and why gambling is so profitable, for the the bookies that is.
Doc, you’ve got to work on your straw manning.
Exactly zero people have blamed Arteta for every problem at Arsenal.
The question is, has Arteta got the maximum (or somewhere close to it) out of the squad he has at his disposal, or has he shown anything (like a plan) to indicate he can do better in the future. If the answer to both these questions is no, then he IS part of the problem, irrespective of what anyone says.
Want someone with an agenda ? Look in the mirror once in a while
Looked at the wall and it was a flat space
Looked at Arteta and it is meh
Very spirited debate here, gents! I am very torn about Arteta. I like him personally, I like the culture he’s trying to build at the club. Presiding over the exodus of the deadwood was no small feat. He had to get KSE to agree to pay to rid us of Ozil, Kola, Musti et al, then find homes for them in a pandemic. He sat Auba in a Derby when he showed up late – and won. We have been better defensively, and our points since Boxing Day are up to the standard we would expect. I have sympathy that the injuries hit us around the EL semi final tie and he had to field a patchwork team, especially in the first leg.
Up to this point, I’ve forgiven the way too conservative style, since there have been flashes of more progressive play since Christmas. (Generous, perhaps, but I was still ok with it) Then came the Chelsea game on Wednesday. Unlike so many others, I was disgusted with our performance. I’ve heard pundits and pods talk about our defensive display and that it’s 3 points at the end of the day. It reminded me of Emery ball, but even worse. Zero attacking ability. Completely content to sit back and take a win by capitalizing on a mistake. If that’s our style and philosophy, i’m happy to see Arteta go. By this time in his tenure we should be playing to win, not to avoid losing.
The biggest challenge for him, assuming he stays, is to let go. As a manager he should have installed a framework and style of play for the team where everyone knows his role and responsibility. That’s all a manager can do. He has to let go and give players flexibility within the framework to play. They can break the rules now that they know them, in order to take calculated risks. Till now, anyone who did that has been harshly penalized. (See Pepe) I just don’t know if Arteta is willing to allow players that freedom required to let them succeed. I don’t see it happening, and I don’t see us progressing with him as manager. I see more rigid, dull football like the Chelsea match. Hoping I’m wrong.
Excellent post.
I want to explore this notion that in order to be defensively resilient, you need to comparatively offensively unambitious. Im inclined to believe that that’s too simplistic (and offers to easy mitigation of the coach’s attacking play), but I’d like to hear from the better footballing minds in this community.
while i don’t consider myself a better mind, i offer a boxing analogy. the general idea is to hit without getting hit. this requires tremendous tactical skill.
you can have all of the punching power in the world but if you don’t throw the punches, you’re going to lose. likewise, you can seek that knockout but if you don’t protect your chin, you’re going to lose. it’s about balance.
personally, i don’t want to be a team who wins the way arsenal won on wednesday at chelsea. i’d like to win because arsenal played better football. that’s how big teams win. wednesday wasn’t a big team win. that was mikel arteta’s everton against the invincibles.
agreed, excellent post. the only variation is you give him credit for the football arsenal have played since boxing day. what i do is give him blame for the football arsenal played before boxing day.
mikel chose to not even roster mesut ozil. umm…okay. surely, he had a plan, right? of course. willian can do what mesut can, right? nope. he didn’t prove he was smarter than people who questioned the mesut exclusion. everybody saw that train wreck coming. arsenal had aubameyang, lacazette, pepe, saka, and martinelli but couldn’t score goals. he thought willian could do what mesut could do because of the opener against a soon to be relegated fulham and decided to not include mesut. nuts! result? arsenal were in 16th place. that was mikel arteta.
he got lucky with the smith rowe as that wasn’t planned. i believe it was more about his inability to effectively manage ozil. i admit, it would be difficult to manage a talent like him. this goes to your second point about letting go. as a manager, you have to put the playstation controller down. let brilliance be brilliant; don’t try and over-control it.
Very good point Josh. He got us into this mess in the first place. This is first time manager stuff. Learning on the job. Seems like we’re stuck with him at least till mid season next year. Whatever choices he makes with the roster this summer better be good, even if we don’t see results. I’m very concerned that he makes poor personnel decisions, leaving us in worse shape than when he arrived.
I agree with several of your criticisms of Arteta, but can’t agree with this. Özil, sadly, was a busted flush. Arteta gave him chances and he didn’t perform. Since being moved on he has again failed to perform, despite the drop in quality of opposition.
Quite why Özil’s level tanked so catastrophically I can only guess, but tank it did. It is sad and frustrating, but that situation was toxic, and I think Arteta handled about as well as he could have.
if you want to say that mesut was past it, i don’t have a problem with that. however, what was the arteta plan after omitting ozil from the squad?
As near as I can tell it was to overload the wings instead, with Willian creating chances from there. This clearly was a terrible plan that I won’t defend for a second. Still, I think the decision to move on from Ozil needs to be considered separately from what followed.
how about that allison goal? what a fantastic strike!
doc, you’re talking about administrative stuff but that’s not what we’re talking about. you’re talking about getting lucky in one-off cup competitions but we’re not talking about that either. we’re talking about, after 18 months and 3 transfer windows in, how much has arteta improved the football that arsenal plays week to week? when you watch arsenal play on a regular saturday afternoon against an aston villa, burnley, or liverpool, do you believe they are on the way to being a top team in world football? all of the other stuff is cute but we care little about that. the quality of the football is arteta’s primary responsibility and that’s what we care about.
i don’t question if arteta holds players accountable. i don’t question his commitment to the cause. i don’t question his desire. however, i’ve always questioned his ability. if he’s got the players at 100% and he’s at 100%, is his level good enough to manage arsenal back to being genuine title contenders and one of the best teams in the world?
You may not care about all that other stuff but it’s those things that ultimately translate to success on the pitch. The answer to all of your questions is yes, of course I believe that or we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
So you’ve asked your questions– to those of us who feel Arteta has the requisites to re-establish Arsenal’s bona fides. Can’t count how many times over the past couple of weeks.
Yet you seem to wish to persist with hypotheticals that can’t be proven unless Arteta is no longer the manager. Which isn’t going to happen for at least 6-8 months. Probably not for at least a year IMO.
‘all of the other stuff is cute but WE care little about that.’
‘The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.’
‘So you’ve asked your questions– to those of us who feel Arteta has the requisites to re-establish Arsenal’s bona fides. Can’t count how many times over the past couple of weeks.’
And not a single proper response received, apart from hopes and dreams projected onto him that have little correlation to what we’ve seen of him, and complete non sequiturs
1) Arteta’s going to play ALL the youth players; except that he’s ostracised most of them and been reluctant to play the rest, except Saka.
2) We signed Partey, so Arteta’s a good manager ; except he was a target long before Areta, and we activated his release clause at the last minute and quadrupled his wages.
You can do better guys
I will always take hopes and dreams over fear and loathing.
Try realism.
(@PRVHC, nailed it)
Neither hope nor fear is real, ie tangible. What’s real is the complexity and beauty of football and the different shades of color it casts on our minds and souls. That’s why I’m here and probably why you’re here. Taste the rainbow instead of trying to squash orange out of the spectrum because it’s not your color.
You seem to have a need to be angry and disrespectful.
You can do better too…
You seem to always be ready with a jab at your interlocutor’s intentions/personality when you don’t have a sensible rebuff to their arguments.
What a shame. There’s nothing personal here. We all want what’s best for Arsenal. I won’t be reciprocating it.
Sayonara
‘There’s nothing personal here.’
First comment of yours I ever read here? Attacked Bill, personally.
‘WE all want what’s best for Arsenal.’
No disagreement there. Would be more comfortable, if it weren’t expressed with the ‘royal We’ by individuals. Opinions differ. Two? Is not a consensus.
Auf wiedersehen.
Claude @ 4:25PM
Plenty of people have implied that we should be able to be successful without having players who have a talent for scoring. Look at the list on most of the wish lists for incoming players. A goal scoring forward is not really even mentioned. We are 3rd best defensive team in the league and I think almost everyone agrees the reason we are in 9th place is because we don’t score enough and a back up LB, back up attacking mid and replacing Xhaka and/or Bellerin are not going to help us fix our single biggest problem
My discussions are linear on purpose. Style of play, tactics, strategy and opposition are all important but the ultimate objective is to collect as many points as possible and you can’t win consistently if you can’t score enough goals. A team can have great strategy and tactics and a specific style of play but you can’t expect a group of players who have hardly ever scored goals in their PL careers to score the number you need to compete for a top 6 spot. That is 1 +1 = 2 level basic football analysis that for some reason the rest of us seem to ignore.
Well, if we get rid of both Laca and Nketiah, then we almost certainly need another forward with some track record of scoring 10+ goals.
If we keep Laca, it’s a different question…do we think Auba can get back his mojo? He doesn’t need to get back to 25-30 goals, but we probably do need him to be at least around 15. Partly that’s on him, partly on Arteta to play in a way that uses Auba’s skills, and maybe also a need for a better attacking mid.
Aubameyang is like a sharp sword, and Arsenal like the fighter learning to fence. No matter how sharp the blade, it can’t score hits until the fighter learns how to feint his way past his opponents defenses. Arsenal needs to do sit-ups this summer to work on our core strength, speed and flexibility.
this is a strong statement. it also supports my position. who is the person that’s responsible for the training the arsenal players have done for the past 18 months? the other things you mention is good but it’s not the primary job of the manager. in fact, i don’t know about giving him credit for some of that stuff. much of that would have happened if he were manager or not.
arteta’s primary job is the quality of football arsenal regularly plays. he’s had 18 months and 3 transfer windows to improve the quality of the football we see. while i’m hopeful he can improve arsenal, i’ve seen no evidence that he can produce better football with the resources arsenal has. what you have transcends hope; it’s called faith, as there’s no evidence to support your beliefs.
BILL: “Plenty of people have implied that we should be able to be successful without having players who have a talent for scoring”.
Not one person said or implied that.
If your argument has to rest on a falsehood, it can’t be a particularly sound one.
+1 Claude
Claude
If you are going to argue that no one has implied or directly stated that by far the biggest reason we have struggled to score this season is Arteta’s tactics and has very little to do with the players we have then you have somehow been reading a different set of comments that I have.
I did a little research regarding what age the production of most of top strikers in the PL has started to decline. Alexis Sanchez age 29, 9 goals, age 30, 2 goals: age 31, 4 goals. RVP age 30, 12 goals, age 31 10 goals. Thierry Henry age 30 12 goals, age 31 19 goals age 32 4 goals. Dennis Bergkamp age 30 4 goals, age 31 3 goals. Didier Drogba age 31 11 goals, age 32 5 goals. Aneka age 30 11 goals, age 31, 6 goals age 32 1 goal. Giroud age 30 12 goals, age 31 4 goals, age 32 3 goals. Sergio aguero, age 30 21 goals, age 31 16 goals, age 32 2 goals. Rooney age 30 8 goals, age 31 5 goals. Fernando Torres age 28 8 goals, age 29 5 goals, age 30 1 goal.
There are a few exception such as Vardy who had a good age 32 season but has seen a big drop off at age 33. History clearly teaches us that most of the high scorers in the PL see a drop in their production around age 30 and the downward slide certainly starts by age 31 in most cases no matter how good their manager is. This was Auba’s age 31 season but most of us completely ignore the lessons history teaches because it does not fit with their predetermined bias that its all the managers fault. Same was true with Mesut Ozil when it was clear his skills were fading but everyone wanted to blame Emery. There has never been a manager who can outsmart Father Time. How was Arteta or any manager supposed to get this team to score enough goals with Auba in single digits? Next year will be Auba’s age 32 season and perhaps there will be a miracle but I think the overwhelming likelihood is he will probably not get any better then he was this season.
your argument is fake af. you never ask why a player’s stats went down, you just make fake assumptions. for instance, we all know aguero’s goals went down this season because he’s been injured but you don’t exercise that nuance, you just put it down to age. likewise, in bergkamp’s last season, arsenal moved to a 4-5-1, a change in strategy, which meant bergkamp didn’t play…but you’ll blame it on his age; despite the fact that he was still schooling guys in training every day.
cristiano is 36 and leads serie a with 29 league goals. messi turns 34 next month and leads la liga with 30 league goals… not to mention that likes of luis suarez and karim benzema who are all well past 30 and are the top scorers in spain with more than 20 goals this season. robert lewandowski is 34 and just equalled the record in bundesliga goals with 40 and the season isn’t over yet. 40, bitches! (mic drop)
kid, your argument is fake af.
Did you just use Messi and CR7 as an example? Two of probably the 5 best players ever? They are both such extreme outliers, not sure they prove anything.
Suarez, Vardy, Benzema, Lewa, I’ll give you.
Prior to this last season, the stats I saw were that Auba was still one of the fastest players in the PL. To me that indicated he hadn’t started any kind of slide. Very hard to say this last season proves anything one way or another. Guess we’ll see.
yep, i used them. not because they’re two of the greatest players ever but because they’re well past 30 and still still the top scorers in the top leagues in the world…something that bill implies is improbable because, after 30, they’re goal-scoring ability is in decline.
once upon a time, i tried to explain to him that players decline physically before they decline technically, or even worse cognitively; cognitive being he declared that mesut’s ability to create (see and think) declined making him senile at 29-years old.
benzema is back in the french team. that makes total sense; giroud hasn’t been playing but big benz has been balling out of his mind.