Good morning folks, it’s 0640 and still dark for at least another 20 minutes so I thought I would scrawl something here in the blue glow of my computer screen while I wait for the oyster grey sunrise to take the dog for a walk.
Last night I started chapter 3 of Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut which kicked off with this quote:
“Son–they say there isn’t any royalty in this country, but do you want me to tell you how to be king of the United States of America? Just fall through the hole in a privy and come out smelling like a rose.”
And it struck me that the older I get the more I find this is the case for a lot of human activity, though it seems especially on point about the current state of US affairs. Maybe I have just started noticing things. Maybe I learned about it all but conveniently forgot. Oh how nice it was to live in ignorance and delusion.
But speaking of going down the boghole and coming up smelling like a rose, Mikel Arteta gave a press conference today and was asked several times about Arsenal buying Chelsea MFer Jorginho. I don’t mean that Arteta is the dirty one, he was asked several times about Jorge and refused to be drawn on the topic – the man’s practically a saint. It’s Jorginho who could be King of the USA.
Before we get too far, don’t know if the rumors are true but there has been a lot of smoke this morning. Given all of the reliable reporting from the Guardian and other sources I feel confident saying that it’s clear Arsenal are are looking to bring in a senior, experienced, MFer. And given the equally reliable reporting about several players leaving, plus Mikel Arteta literally saying “we are looking for different options depending on what happens with some of our players here so we are getting prepared just in case we need to do something”, I feel confident saying that it looks like Arsenal are trying to offload Torreira and Guendouzi in order to finance a move for Jorginho, Partey, or Aouar.
As for this link, I like Jorginho. Probably a controversial opinion but there it is. He’s the kind of player who can and does control a game from midfield – very much like Xhaka. He’s also quite a snide defender who isn’t afraid to stick a boot into someone. But it is interesting that Arsenal probably won’t be looking to sell Xhaka.
My theory with all of this is that Arteta wants to keep Xhaka because he’s left-footed and the left side of Arsenal’s attack is banging along quite well – thanks to his newly refined role in the double-pivot. But what Arteta needs is a right-footed MFer to play along-side Xhaka and get the right side of the attack humming as well. I don’t think we are looking for any specific qualities – such as dribbling, which people rate far too high – but rather just quality.
I speculated earlier this year that bringing in another MFer seems to rob a starting place from Ceballos but I’m wondering if maybe Arteta doesn’t see Ceb’s best position as the point of the lance in a midfield three? I’ll explain.
Jorge and Granit aren’t the most mobile defenders. Both have been played as the “Pirlo” dictating play from the deep lying midfield role (often confused for DM) and both have been subsequently exposed for their defensive frailties. But! If you keep them close together and put a fiesty, pressing MFer (Ceb or Willian – not a great presser but a great passer) in front of them I think that provides a solid enough base that you could something really good.
As a bonus, it would mean that he would have to play a back four. Essentially, swap Ceballos/Willian up top for the “sweeper” in the back.
It does look like that may be the long-term plan. I know Arteta prefers lefties to play left in defense and MF and righties on the right. And we have been buying players who fit those criteria. And now Arsenal are linked to three midfielders who are wildly different in terms of personal qualities with just two things in common – they are quality players and they are right-footed. So, while that sounds awfully simplistic I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest it. I think Arteta wants a double-pivot, I think Arteta wants a lefty and a righty in there, I know Arteta loves Xhaka, we all know that Guendouzi and Torreira are being shopped around, we all know Arsenal have been strongly linked with Partey-Jorge-Aouar, and I think he sees having two quality MFers as the way forward.
Anyway, the sun’s up and I have to get ready for work. As always, debate in the comments.
He’s a decent player, but seems not a huge upgrade on our existing options. Maybe worth considering if we get a really good deal, but otherwise, feels like a player with a more creative focus is a higher priority.
He’s a massive upgrade on Guendouzi, Elneny, and Torreira and a sizeable upgrade on Xhaka just based on his touch and defensive awareness alone.
Who are you thinking is his equal on this team?
Guess I’m of the opinion that Chelsea massively screwed up by displacing Kante with Jorginho. You’re correct, he is probably better than any of the existing options. But I’ve never been that impressed with him. I’d much rather have Partey if we’re trying to get a top class CDM.
At first, I was very concerned with our interest in Jorginho, but then I thought of him in comparison to Partey, who is tremendously underwhelming in my view. They’re both similar age while Partey seems to be overrated defensively and Jorginho is a bit underrated defensively. Jorginho is clearly a quality and disciplined passer of the ball, while offering a step up in performance compared to our current options. And, Jorginho has shown he can succeed in the Premier League. If he’s cheaper than Partey and allows funds to go to a more advanced midfielder, then great. If he just adds quality and experience without a massive price tag while also allowing us to avoid a huge overspend on a thoroughly okay player (Partey), then very good.
As to the very functional idea of just getting quality right and left footers on their side of the pitch in midfield, it’s a good point. While it does seem a bit simplistic, maybe getting functionality and a certain base level of quality is where we’re at right now. Arteta should know better than me. And if it allows us to evolve (as Arteta would say) into a more advantageous collective of players and roles on the pitch I have no complaints.
Very excited for this coming week and then transfer season to be over.
We give him a lot of flack over here but I’ve always liked jorginho. He’s a one touch passing king. He just needs cover/pace around him when playing transitional defense. He’s also better at passing and ball circulation than any of your current guys, although it may not seem like it, because guys like Xhaka are much more Hollywood with their pass attempts.
Idk but it’s been very interesting to see us do so much business together over the last 3 years. Auba, Luiz,Willian, Cech, Giroud, (and now maybe) jorginho were all deals directly or indirectly done. We should be rivals but I don’t think we see each other that way anymore.
From my side, footballistically, its not really controversial opinion. I like him too.
I have liked Jorginho since his early days at Napoli where he played as a box to box midfielder under Benitez. But in his latter years, he played deeper for Napoli and he shone in the role. I felt like he should have been signed to replace Santi, because even if he didn’t have the dribbling that Santi had, he dominated games in a different way. I especially loved this quote from Radja Nainggolan about Jorginho:
” My toughest opponent? I’d say Jorginho. He always plays in small spaces, with one-metre passes. It’s difficult to keep up with him or to try to cut out his passes. You get very tired because he distributes the ball very quickly yet he remains practically still. ”
He reminds me a lot about Lia Walti of the Arsenal Womens team. I use her as a template when coaching young deep-lying midfielders. Lia Walti is better in her tackling than Jorginho, but on the ball and positional sense, he is up there with the best deep playing midfielders.
Now this might probably be a controversial opinion, but I would actually prefer Jorginho over Partey.
Not controversial here with me at all!
I think Jorginho is the backup for Partey. I do know Jorginho is a better tackler than most, if not all, of our MFers. He doesn’t boast a great tackle success rate like Partey but he’s definitely a better passer of the ball. The downside of having Xhaka and Jorginho as a double pivot is, they aren’t much of goalscoring threats in my opinion.
Unless I’m misreading the data, Jorginho and Partey have virtually identical tackle success rates. As far as I can tell Partey is not some great defensive beast for Atleti. That’s almost all done by Saul.
I wish I knew where that particular information came from because I’d like to read it and figure out what I’m missing.
I got the numbers from WhoScored.
I think every midfielder in Atletico wins quite a lot of tackles. Herrera, Partey and Koke average more than 2 tackles per 90. As you rightly mentioned, Saul leads in that regard.
I got the numbers from WhoScored.
I think every midfielder in Atletico wins quite a lot of tackles. Herrera, Partey and Koke average more than 2 tackles per 90. As you rightly mentioned, Saul leads in that regard.
Chelsea have had very good/excellent midfielders in the Abramovich era. Frank Lampard was a very good box-to-box goal scoring midfielder. He could nick a goal by timing those runs with the best of them. I always had time for Lamps. More so than say, Stevie G, dunno why. Maybe it was because of Drohgba who I so admired. We have Willian from them. I hope we get Jorginho. I hope we have an excellent Portoguese speaking (or really any language speaking) midfield to realize Arteta’s 3-4-3. I hope we somehow manage to get a result on Monday. With Willian.
Playing that riff note for note from “Don’t Stop Believin” right now.
“Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on”
Do you guys watch football, we Don’t need another sideways passer of the ball. Big No to Jorginho. Get Soumare and Stop wasting time and money on Partey. Just because Torreira doesn’t fit Artetas plans doesn’t make him a bad player overnight. He’s the defensive midfielder we’ve been crying out for.
We need a dribbler and a Santi in our team. That’s all, please stay away from Jorginho
Do we watch football? What’s football?
Football is Santi Cazorla.
Football is not Jose Mourinho. Just saying.
Hahaha
Easy now…
…we need a santi in our team? what does that even mean? what are you suggesting? how many santi’s are out there?
On that topic, why not Sandro Tonalli. Of what I’ve seen, he has good ball retention, extremely hard to dispose off. He combines passing and dribbling extremely well.
I’m sure he’s joined AC Milan
Thanks Noobpro, enough said
Long time lurker, and my first time commenting here.
Thank you, 7am for this wonderful forum to discuss all things Arsenal.
I’ve finished Dental school, and a post grad degree and got married and had a kid along the way, but the one constant thing is me visiting this site at least once a day to take in the various well thought out points presented here.
Partey has had me confused, particularly these past few days as the talks of his joining Arsenal seem to intensify, mainly because a quite a lot of people seem to find him underwhelming.
I found this YouTube analysis of Partey to be very helpful
https://youtu.be/D-S-vHyPEWM
This is not to compare him to other midfielders that our PL rivals have, nor is it to compare him to Partey alternatives.
This video is just to illustrate what Partey capable of bringing to the table, in the arsenal midfield
Furthermore, that YouTube channel also has a great analysis video of the sort of player that Houssem Aouar is.
https://youtu.be/tdbjsm3IMYA
If the noises coming out of France are true, we have reason to be massively excited.
Aouar has all that we Arsenal fans have been crying out for in terms of unlocking that low block we encounter, and that we struggle against.
Any one of Partey or Aouar would be fantastic,
But both of them this transfer window will be truly transformational
Going after Jorginho, 2 weeks before the window closes does not make any sense to me. Even if he is better than all the players we have there, as far as we have enough numbers there, Arteta should be looking to strengthen in other areas of the pitch.
Why have they suddenly realized that Jorginho is available when they have gone to bring back Ceballos.
We need playmakers. We do not have them at all now, especially since Arteta wants us to forget that Ozil is still an Arsenal player.
If he only brings in Aouar, then it means that we have wasted a transfer window, without making attempts to balance the team, enough for Arteta to give us the style of play, we know Arsenal deserves. Since he came in, he has brought in Pablo Mari and Gabriel in central defence, renewed David Luiz for another season, despite knowing that Saliba is coming back from loan, having never played for the club since his transfer a summer ago. Add Willian, whose primary position we do not need reinforcement for and the re-signing of Dani Ceballos, plus Cedric Soares (who now looks like he cannot bench Bellerin or Maitland-Niles), we have had 4 or 5 deals without bringing in any attacking midfielders. This for a team that created less chances than lower placed teams in the league last season, i would say, has been a big missed opportunity. By adding Jorginho, we will be building up a squad, that make a shiny new player but who will come in and create redundancies in the club, thereby creating a future excuse about how we cannot sign players until we sell the ones we confined to the bench. I guess Arteta is too new to be criticized but these are the facts.
You say we need playmakers – that’s what Jorginho is, no?
I definitely want Aouar over Partey. Our centre-midfield base is more conservative and therefore relatively solid under Arteta, but we are crying out for a bit more quality in the team to become truly dangerous going forwards, and to be able to dominate the ball when we want to and therefore to control games better.
Willian is a step in the right direction, his experience and quality have improved us already, we need more of the same. And I agree with posters on the previous thread that we need someone who can play a bit closer to Pepe and bring him into the game more.
All the dynamism currently comes from the flanks and the wing backs, it’s a decent system but it still needs a strong attacking link-up player. I know his name is banned for good reason around here, but a certain German player would be a great asset to this squad right now if his back and his attitude were right.
Oh yeah – and Jorghino would be my second choice over Aouar. Top possession player.
I’m confused because I haven’t been keeping up with our rivals and our rumors, I guess. Why would Chelsea sell Jorginho? Why would Jorginho want to leave Chelsea and come to Arsenal? Is his contract finished there? Is he not playing under Lampard? Help me understand why this is even plausible.
I’ll tell you why Bun. In one word, you will know why any player would come to Arsenal.
“Arteta”
Maybe. I really do think (hope) Lampard will get found out this year, and maybe someone like Jorginho recognizes that he’s playing under a pretty average manager right now and fancies joining Arteta’s project. I just think it’s weird. I mean, most players prioritize the money and ambition on offer, and right now Arsenal are very much in a building phase, whereas Chelsea have loads of money, in the CL, etc. I realize Chelsea make strange decisions, though.
Chelsea follower here. Jorginho isn’t necessarily seen as an integral part of our future. He doesn’t turn super well with the ball and rarely drives forwards with it. Usually he’ll play a one touch pass away from pressure to keep possession. However, Lampard wants a different profile of player as his deepest midfielder. The rumour is we are in for Rice(West ham) and Juventus reneged on their interest to buy jorginho. So, here we are, willing to sell you our DLP fulcrum.
kieran gibbs slapped james rodriguez and now west brom are slapping chelsea. 3-0 in less than half an hour? ha! it’s easy to blame kepa but while i don’t think kepa was worth the dough spent, he’s not nearly as bad as he’s being made out to be. that defense has continually let him down, just like they’re letting down caballero. thank heavens for arteta.
jorginho is a good player. would he make arsenal better? i’m unsure. he’s an intelligent player but he needs a work horse like n’golo kante along side him. however, the intelligent part is more important than being a great dribbler or a great passer or “a santi” or any other nonsense.
btw, santi was good because he was the smartest guy on the pitch. the same goes for any other top cdm with different technical qualities. santi’s skills set on the pitch is just an extension of his personality. i believe that thiago alcantara at liverpool is smarter than jordan henderson. as a result, i expect liverpool to do well. a similar statement could be made about man city’s fall from the top of the summit. pep’s decision to be cute and play fernandinho as a central defender is the main reason why they didn’t win the league this past season. rodri is a good player but he lacks the experience of fernandinho.
Lovely to see Chelsea dropping points today. Interesting that Jorginho captained their first two games but finds himself benched for the whole game today. I’m sure that will only add fuel to the transfer rumors!
Read a piece today comparing his stats to Partey, and looks like Jorginho edges it, but they are quite similar in that sense.
[but Jorginho more creative from the deep-lying position]
jorginho’s played in the premier league and already lives in london…but he’s two years older.
the move for a creative attacking midfielder is tough. arsenal’s 3-4-3 only plays with two center mids…where do aouar (or mesut) fit?
False 9
would you drop eddie or lacazette to play aouar?
I don’t know. 🙂
I highly doubt Arteta wants to keep playing a 3-4-3 and would at least like the option to play with a functional 3 man midfield as soon as possible. That said, 3-4-3 seems to best suit the personnel we have right now.
…speaking of jorginho, i wonder if a former team mate and countryman who’s newly joined arsenal, willian, have anything to do with the late arsenal interest. it could be posturing by the club to get athletico madrid to budge….just a thought.
likewise, there was a huge interest in jorginho from man city (arteta) before he joined chelsea. i’m thinking arsenal’s current interest might not be that new.
…and david luiz.
i just watched a jorginho highlight video and he looks a bit like arteta when he plays. he’s not a great athlete but very smart and could certainly release our strikers from deep. as bun says, it’s interesting that he captained chelsea the first two games but didn’t feature today; that might have something to do with chelsea’s first half capitulation. i’m interested now.
Whatever happens tomorrow, I’ll still be high on the Spuds/Newcastle result. Bets on the length of Jose’s tenure? Pinkie bets only 🙂