The audacity of youth

It was a weird week at the Arsenal. On Sunday last week I wrote a piece suggesting that maybe, just maybe, Arteta should drop some of the older players and give some chances to guys like Nelson, Smith-Rowe, Willock, and even Azeez. I wasn’t saying anything revolutionary. I was merely parroting the zeitgeist at Arsenal. We were all tired of seeing turgid performances from the likes of Willian and we had all seen what the younger players had done in the Europa League. Put 2+2 together and you get 3-1.

Inevitably, the cooler heads around the club replied that it would be madness to throw caution to the wind and give chances to the kids. That it would be absurd to expect these young players to score us goals. And some even going so far as to say that it would be unfair to ask them to shoulder the burden of getting us out of this hole. All are legitimate arguments, none of which have been undone by one game: there are still 23 games to play and Arsenal are still in 15th place. It would be rash in the extreme to suggest that this result means a change of fortune.

And people are correct, it is dangerous to play the young players. We are on the edge of a relegation battle and the mentality it takes to win those games is different to what it takes to win one off games in the Europa League.

In Ian Wright’s podcast on the Ringer (Wrighty’s House) he and his guests spoke about that mentality and how different it is when you’re fighting for a top four place and a bottom four place: it’s the difference between going out and expressing yourself, knowing that you can miss a shot and it’s ok because there will be more, and getting a one-on-one with the keeper where you know if you miss this, it means more misery for your teammates and the fans, and more hard work to get another chance. That’s when the keeper will suddenly grow 10x his normal size.

There is a switch that flips in sports when teams suddenly think “wait, we can beat them.” We saw that happen with Arsene Wenger’s side in his final three years. People kept asking me what had changed and it was, literally, a simple thing: teams thought they could get at us. Seeing what clubs like Southampton had done to us time and again, the Burnleys and Norwichs played two guys up top instead of just one: they had a go at Arsenal.

But there’s a second switch that flips, or maybe a lower gear. That’s when a team sees a club like Arsenal and starts to think that not only could they beat us but that they look forward to playing against us. And that’s when we get in this situation. That’s when our supposed class and talent is no longer enough to get us past these teams.

And you know what I’m talking about: you saw the five fixtures coming up this week (Chelsea, Brighton, West Brom, Newcastle, and Crystal Palace) and thought “ok, we are going to get beat by Chelsea but we will take points from Brighton, West Brom, and Newcastle”. That’s not unique to fans. Players and coaches do the same thing.

So, of course it is dangerous to play young players in that situation. They might not have the confidence and experience to deal with those challenges. We have all seen the worst case scenario with this: when Wenger played Eboue in DM. But like I have said in the comments here, on twitter, and in person: no one is saying that you play all 11 players straight from the creche to the grave. But the question is which older players to drop and which young players to bring in?

Before the Chelsea game yesterday Arsenal (club, players, and fans) were at the lowest emotional state that I have ever seen and I think the question among the fans was less “can we win” and more “can we keep this respectable?”* Most of us wallowed in the gallows humor of just knowing that Arteta was playing Willian, making all the same choices, and changing nothing.

But then he didn’t.

Before the match there were some quotes circulating that Edu had needed to step in and punish certain players. According to Ornstein the club fined Willian for the salt bae trip and punished several others (reportedly Auba as well) for other infringements. Then an hour before kickoff the lineup was announced and Willian, David Luiz, and Aubameyang had all been dropped: Auba to the bench, the other two completely off the team. Gabriel was also not on the team sheet.

The club rushed a story that Gabriel, Willian, and David Luiz were all dropped for COVID reasons. Gabriel was dropped because he’d had close contact with someone who tested positive: which was confirmed to be his girlfriend who returned from a trip to Brazil just last week. But Willian and Luiz were dropped for COVID symptoms, with the club also saying that they tested negative for the virus.

So, maybe Arteta wanted to play the young players and maybe COVID forced his hand, I guess we won’t know for a few weeks as these older players quarantine and get healthy. But whatever the reason why, the lineup was pretty drastically changed both in terms of personnel and approach.

Arteta switched from a 343 to a 4231. Up top he made Lacazette the focus of the attack and behind him played a three of Martinelli, Emile Smith-Rowe (in the “dead” #10 role), and Bukayo Saka on the right as an inverted winger. Xhaka and Elneny played in the middle, Tierney and Bellerin played fullback, and the oft maligned Pablo Mari was brought in to partner the rock solid Rob Holding.

The change in the team was immediate. Arsenal were pressing from the start, harassing Chelsea in multiple places on the pitch but especially in their own half. Arsenal ended the match with the 2nd most pressures that they have had this season, 149, behind the game against Liverpool and the most pressure regains all season (League only). Arsenal also made the 4th most tackles of any League game this season, and the most tackles against dribbles. Very clearly we had injected a bit of hustle into this team. Smith-Rowe and Martinelli had 20 and 19 pressures each, which was 2nd and 3rd on the team and they only played 64 and 70 minutes respectively.

But the important part is that the pressure started up top and continued in the middle – with Xhaka and Elneny in 1st and 4th for pressures yesterday. I’m not sure what got into Xhaka. He’s only made 88 pressures this season, 24 of those in the match against Chelsea. Maybe the young guys inspired him or maybe three games off helped. He’s at a career low in terms of pressures per90 this season with just 9.67, which was 7.9 going into this game – half of the number he averaged last season (15.1). So 24 pressures from him was something to see.

And the pressure was paying off in every way, except an early goal. Bellerin flashed in a cross to an open Martinelli who just couldn’t quite sort his feet out, otherwise it was a huge chance. And just 8 minutes later another sustained bit of high pressure won the ball back, Xhaka played a good switch to Tierney – who was overlapping – and who drove at James, winning a foul and penalty.

It was a goal that Arsenal “deserved” for all of their hard work and desire. But as soon as Lacazette finished, I wrote in my notes “ok, but how are we going to play now?” Because most games up to this one, whenever Arteta takes the lead, he immediately instructs the team to go passive. It’s incredibly frustrating. Almost as frustrating as when we go passing and don’t have the lead – his other nonsense tactic.

But instead, Arsenal kept pressing, kept attacking. Saka picked up on the right, drove across the Chelsea danger area and was brought down by Kante. At that moment, Xhaka looked like he was going to take the kick. I have been looking at the data for direct free kicks and it turns out that Xhaka has overperformed xG in this area for quite a while. So, when he lined it up – even though it’s still a low % chance – I felt like it was going in. And sure enough, he put it perfectly past Mendy and Arsenal went into the halftime break with a 2-0 lead.

This was bucking all the trends this season. We are normally a slow starting team and here we were getting shots off in the first 30 seconds of a game, driving in, winning pens, pressing high and trying hard to win the game early on. The only question then was when will Arteta go soft again?

That was answered by a Bukayo Saka goal of extraordinary quality. Cutting in from the right again, this time he was shut down from going left, so he had a look up and (claims) he saw Mendy off his line. So, with the outside of his off-foot he curled in a third goal.

Now, whether you think all these things were luck or not shouldn’t be the focus. Sure, there are complaints about the penalty. But I’m not hearing that after VAR reviewed it and after all the super soft (or even non) penalties Arsenal have conceded over the years. Ok, direct free kicks are low % shots. But they are more likely than regular shots from outside the box, and certain players are far better at them than others so it’s definitely a skill. And Saka’s shot/cross might not have been 100% intentional but he did mean to try an outside the boot cross, with his off foot.

There’s luck (good and bad) to every football game. The trick is to be audacious enough to try things and press your luck. And back to the mentality thing I mentioned at the top: when you’re in a relegation situation, the tendency is to be as conservative as possible. To not try things that are going to make the fans groan. Yet, all day, Arsenal were brimming with the sort of audacity that you normally see from a top four team: Martinelli tried a spectacular overhead kick, Tierney created another great chance for Martinelli after we were already three-nil up, and even Lacazette tried to curl one around Mendy in a one-on-one. Arteta even got into the act: bringing on Willock for Emile Smith-Rowe and Pepe for Martinelli, and then told them to play forward where I would have expected more defenders and defensive midfielders.

This is everything I expected (and more) from Arsenal this season. We don’t have to win every game or even play well every game for a full 90 minutes. But I want to see the players trying to win, doing things that we don’t normally see.

I’m not deluded. I know that this isn’t necessarily a new dawn for the season. This also isn’t proof that I was right and that the kids should play every game. Maybe we just raise our game against big opponents. Maybe we were just fitter than them on the day. I don’t know. But I do know that in sport, you make your own luck: it’s not giften from on high. And I feel like the way you make that luck is with energy and audacity.

It’s up to the team now to do that.

Qq

*Of course there were the professional antagonists who will always sense the majority and proclaim that they feel like the opposite is going to happen, which when it does hits like a jackpot in a smoky casino.

56 comments

  1. It was brilliant seeing us play with the younger generation yesterday. Think it’s time that power in dressing room shifts to Tierney, AMN, Martinelli, Saka, ESR. All it takes is that Arteta gives them mandate.

    1. At one point Tierney told off Pepe for not showing himself for a pass. What a difference in terms of impact between Pepe (playing on the right or left) and Martinelli, for the 2nd game running.

      I hope Pepe recaptures the form from Lille but he has to work real hard to earn his chances.

  2. Much much better. I’ve said before here that ESR is worth a look, and he seemed like he belonged on a very big stage. Sure, Kante made him look bad a few times, but Kante does that to everyone. Still not sure if there’s a way back for Arteta, but playing the kids might be the best shot he’s got. And suddenly, the schedule looks more promising. It’s that damn hope thing again!!!

  3. Good Article. I only wish we start climbing up in the next 4 games and be out of sight of this relegation battle. My Genuine worry is Arteta will revert to types.

    The key yesterday was this — we pressing and not letting Chelsea play. When Auba & Willain play — there is hardly any effort for them to press – they are not that type of players. With Nelson, WIllock, ESR, Gabi, Saka — we can drive things forward and not be passive with Auba & Willian.

  4. What a surprise! Starting young Gunners adds energy to a team that was previously replete with lethargy and malaise. The bigger surprise and a real confirmation of the aphorism about a rising tide was the performance of Xhaka. An astonishing improvement.

    The drive, aggression and energy of Martinelli provided a paradigm shift for the whole team and ESR’s movements between the lines was something we have been waiting for all season long. Saka is just the bee’s knees – what a talent! I liked Marí’s cynical body check, adding necessary professional cynicism to the youthful vigour. Our superb earlier period and three goals notwithstanding, Leno’s penalty save was a match-winning moment as the momentum threatened to shift against us. Martinelli’s contribution was further highlighted by his replacement by Pépé who was in comparison, practically a spectator throughout his spell on the pitch. The stat that in his 70 or so minutes, Martinelli had more shots on target than Willian has produced all season is a damning indictment of the ex-Chav.

    This is a lesson that must be learnt. We will win little relying on proto-retirees particularly those who join us primarily for their pension pot contributions. If Arteta returns to the old guard, especially Willian the Idle, he deserves his jotters.

    1. Love Willian the Idle! We have a whole round table of buffoons. Granit the Brainless. Mesut the Absent. Shkodran the Clueless, Dani the Duckfoot etc. etc.

  5. I was amazed at the pace and freshness of martinelly in the city game. Again he was class difference. Having read Wenger’s book he talks about his mistake at Cannes when they overtrained at the beginning of the year and the players were exhausted. I wonder if Arteta and the fitness team did the same. It could be that the three games break for xhaka has freshened him up. On the other hand Pepe came in and was again infuriatingly slow. Tierney kept pointing him into the space and Pepe insisted on receiving the ball into his feet

  6. You know, I was fixing to write something about how the only reason we saw Smith Rowe and Martinelli yesterday was because Arteta’s hand was forced, and so don’t expect them (especially Smith Rowe) to be mainstays in future line-ups. I still think there’s some truth to that, and no doubt (much to my sadness) Willian will walk back in when he’s available, but it was interesting to see Pepe and Aubameyang on the bench in favor of the aforementioned youngsters.

    Thing is, when things get difficult, it’s natural for a manager to rely on experience to get you through, and we all know how conservative Arteta is at the best of times. Will yesterday’s performance be a watershed moment, though? We’ll see.

    1. “You know, I was fixing to write something about how the only reason we saw Smith Rowe and Martinelli yesterday was because Arteta’s hand was forced, and so don’t expect them (especially Smith Rowe) to be mainstays in future line-ups.”

      Ill go one further, when i originally saw smith-rowe and martinelli in the starting line-up, I genuinely believed mikel arteta was passivley aggressivley attacking the arsenal ‘blogoshphere’🤣🤣

  7. Xhaka and Elneny played well. But if we could just get Partey and one other quality midfielder and then we’d have a platform for the youngsters. If the Julian Brandt rumours are true… I know he’s undersized but that’s why you would partner him with Partey.

    Martinelli is un-droppable now and it makes me ill to think we spent that much money on Pepe when we had a goal scoring winger.

    1. Just looked up Julian Brandt, and seems to be a credible rumor. But why do you say he’s undersized? Wikipedia tells me he’s 6’1″!

        1. I don’t know about the 183… Brandt’s problem has always been he’s bullied off the ball. That’s what I meant about undersized – can he cope in the Premier League.

          1. Well, I just watched a game with him in the lineup and he was absolutely magnificent: incredible touch, poise, and ability to get himself and the ball out of trouble and into the opposition final third. He’s also quicker than I thought/remembered.

            His dispossessed stats aren’t that bad, especially for someone who plays so high up the pitch.

            Interesting that we seem to have opposite views on this player.

    2. But if we could just get Partey and one other quality midfielder and then we’d have a platform for the youngsters. If the Julian Brandt rumours are true…

      If that doesn’t happen, why not try Willock (rotating with Elneny). I know he’s still raw, but he is athletic and at least tries to move the ball forward.

  8. Interesting about Willian and Luiz and that suspiciously timed statement. But Auba was a slight injury concern, and was sat as a precaution. It was good that he wasn’t needed yesterday.

    A few notes of caution about giving youth its head. For the festive fixtures, you have to use your bench, the squad. True, Chelsea wouldn’t normally be the game to tinker, but this is a period in which games come every few days, and the risk of injuries increase.

    We bunch the kids together, but they are not of equal talent, so some will see a lot of minutes, and some won’t. Martinelli is exceptional — in skill, drive and commitment. He’s the Russell Westbrook of the EPL… plays every minute hard and with no little skill. Saka is our little diamond. The rest are all in a second tier, fight to get to their level.

    Young player does not necessarily correlate to energy. Against City, Willock lost the ball and didn’t track back against a slow and aging Fernandiho, and that led to Foden’s goal. One of the sprightliest displays yesterday came from Old Man Lacazette.

    So I don’t know about throwing on “the kids”. I do know that yesterday’s mix of verve, tactical smartness and directness was the best Arsenal have played in 3 months.

    1. All good reminders, claude. I think it’s also worth mentioning that sometimes we exaggerate when we imagine just how many “kids” actually played! We had three U21 players in yesterday’s starting eleven (Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe). That’s unusual, but there was a lot of experience there, too. (Xhaka played really well (he usually does that after embarrassing himself in a previous game)).

      My brain sometimes thinks Rob Holding is one of the “kids,” but I checked and he’s 25…and quickly going bald! Man, I feel sorry for him. I started losing my hair around 28, and I remember feeling devastated at the time! I’m almost 50 now and couldn’t care less, but if I were Rob’s age I’d be downing finasteride. Someone tell him about it!

      1. Exactly right about the “kids”, Bun.
        Saka has been an automatic in any line up against any opponent, so he shouldn’t even be in a “give the kids a chance “ convo.
        Martinelli is by all accounts another world class talent ( Klopp had no doubt) so hardly taking a chance there if fit.
        That only leaves us with Smith Rowe then.

        I think the game was certainly about Arsenal’s energy and the drive to make things happen, as Tim has pointed out, but I wouldn’t necessarily get too carried away with this result as somehow being transformational.

        We were aggressive and Chelsea looked flat, and their away results haven’t been great . We took the game to them and made things happen for sure, but also got some lucky breaks too.

        Xhaka gives away a free kick in the opening minutes and if that goes in, as Leno was clearly beaten, we might’ve been in trouble considering our come from behind record.

        I thought the pen was soft ,even if correct (after a dozen of replays).
        Xhaka’s free kick was awesome but you wouldn’t bet money on it going in before hand.
        And Saka’s goal was definitely more lucky than planned.

        My fear is that we go into Brighton on a high and we get played off the park, like we did after the United win going into the Villa game.

      2. Great comment! Good observations.

        Saka’s one of the kids, but he’s a fixture. Was reminded of that seeing him trolling himself over that cross/shot on social media, and his England buddies rolling their eyes (You meant it! Yeah right). Joe, Eddie and Reiss are getting to point where we have to stop calling them kids. Balogun, still a teenager, excites me a lot, but Ive seen stories of his leaving in free agency and Liverpool hovering 🙁

        As for the baldness…this fiftysomething isnt worried. In my family, we keep our hair, but lose the battle of midway. Ive kept the wolves at bay, but Christmas isnt helping!

        Have a super 2021, bro. 2020 sucked a little for you, no?

        1. It did suck, yes. I mean, I got COVID, and, like most of us, the pandemic in general has disrupted what used to be ‘normal’ for me and my family, but I’ll also remember 2020 as a year when I came to fully realize that age has not necessarily brought wisdom. I have surprised myself at some of the poor decisions I’ve made in recent years, including 2020. I’m not talking about career or financial things; I mean other kinds of life choices, stupid spur-of-the-moment things, and the way I’ve treated those closest to me. There was some talk of shame in the last post, and I’m experiencing some of that, but, even though I recognize that dwelling on shame can be a harmful thing, it is also the feeling that’s helping me realize mistakes I’ve made and the need to re-examine who I thought I was (and to take responsibility and apologize when I’ve hurt others). Shame is not inherently bad. I don’t feel sorry for myself, so please don’t read this as self-pity. It’s more about being honest and acknowledging that self-righteousness (“my judgment of things is probably right because I’m an objective person”) is a poor way to navigate through life.

          Sorry, claude, I know you weren’t expecting this kind of introspection in your kind little question, but these things have been at the forefront of my mind in the past few months.

          1. Shame does have a place. But also admitting you were wrong and asking for forgiveness. That’s a big step. Just know that people don’t have to forgive you. That’s ok too. Just keep trying to be a better person. That’s the whole thing.

    2. Oh, and on the issue of quality, I hate to be a downer, but I don’t think Willock and Nketiah have futures at the club, and I’d be surprised if Smith Rowe was at Arsenal after next season. Saka and Martinelli are exceptional.

      1. Agree re Willock and Nketiah but I have a feeling that ESR will prove to be an exceptional player if he can stay fit.

      2. We still need to fill our “home grown” quota don’t we? Willock and Nketiah are not world beaters, but they do help to fill out the squad, at least until better options become available to us. I’d like to keep Willock to help add some movement to the midfield, and I suspect Nketiah’s future with the club will depend on whether we can find a buyer for Laca as well as whether Balogun stays and shows that he is able to thrive at this level.

        1. Yes.

          Also Brexit is going to change things (though how we don’t quite know yet) and with an owner who won’t put money into the club (he isn’t putting money in to the club, we need to stop this bald-faced lie) the best way to compete going forward is a top quality academy.

  9. Its difficult writing articles with foresight based on some solid insights. People often don’t believe the foresight and its not nice to say told you so!

    Tim, you have been concerned about the passive playing style for months now, even when the results hadn’t turned, people didn’t believe after the ManU win that we were in troubled waters. Same way people have been calling for Arteta’s head for a few weeks now but didn’t recognise the improvements.

    Tim, appreciate the effort and insights. Makes it easier watching the games, adjusting the expectations, although its been a bad run, been able to find something else (e.g. US election) to focus on instead.

  10. Playing the youth and pressing was one of the obvious differences in the game. But the other was having a positive midfield. Something that Xhaka has been seemingly intentionally avoiding all season. I am not sure if that is by design or a decision on Xhaka’s part or maybe a combination of the two. But Xhaka was positive both with passing and running into space with the Saka goal being the obvious example which was created by very positive play by Xhaka. I was shocked to see that (good shocked).

    Was the difference having a number 10 who helped to create easier passes for the X and elN midfield and pull defenders away from Laca so that he could link up a bit easier. I loved how the formation worked yesterday.

    I hope that we can build on it and not have teams just adjust and shut down Arte’s most recent adjustment.

  11. Great post Time.

    The front line we used against Everton with Pepe and Nketiah is not exactly old and Maitland-Niles was young and Ceballos is also a relatively young player compared to Xhaka. Arteta has been using young players this season including Saka, Nketiah, Ceballos Maitland-Niles. Pepe is not a young academy aged player but he isn’t an old washed up player well past his prime like Willian. The difference was yesterday the players executed better then anything else we had been trying for the last couple months. Hopefully it will be the start of a run of good form. I agree that we don’t want to see Willian anymore. Age has clearly caught up with him

  12. I’m chuckling here at us old guys defending the experienced warhorses, protesting lest they are discarded all too soon in favour of some callow youth, somehow I feel we have a vested emotional interest…

  13. Tim,

    Love the blog I’m a big fan of your writing thank you!!!!
    I thought Chelsey played like us yesterday (too flat) not sure what the stats say!? much-needed break for us though 🙂 What did you think about Athletic’s article on Edu…

      1. Tim,

        The article is long-form with interesting tidbits, here are a few things that stood out for me..

        • Edu was hired as a technical director by Emery/Sanllehi he is responsible for long term squad planning
        • So far he has been instrumental in signing Luiz, Cedri, Willian, and Mari (Looks like Sanllehi pushed for long-term contracts for some of these players)
        • Luiz was a panic buy for Koscielny 
        • Cedric was backup for Bellerin as Niles was still in development 
        • Willian was Edu’s proposal which Arteta approved 

        I’m reading between the lines a bit but it looks like the scouting department at that time thought these players should only be an emergency short-term cover so Edu/Co should take full responsibility for these signings.

        • Our Next priorities are signing a creative midfielder, right-sided center-half, and squad clear out. Edu believes Squad will be competitive for 2022-23

        Overall it looks like the article tries to portray Edu as a victim caught up in a massive transition and at the same time set the stage for the sack if things get worse.

          1. Sure, will post if I find something interesting. Honestly, I love your analysis and the engagement here more 7amkickoff is by far my favorite Arsenal blog thanks to you!!!

  14. about 6 years ago, i had my u19s in gatlinburg for a showcase. it was incredibly cold that january night (coming from south georgia). during the warmup, the kids were playing some rap music and one of the songs had a hook that went something like “that’s what money do”; it might be a song about how money makes the girls get butt-naked in the club or whatever. later during the warmup, hook still heavy in my head, i highlighted a player’s pressure on the ball leading to an opportunity for a team mate. at a stoppage, i highlighted this play and, at some point, referenced the song by saying “that’s what pressure do”. that little quote took off with the boys repeating it at every opportunity in future training sessions and games…kinda mocking me but also when it was relevant. i even heard a 15-year old girl saying it at a game a few months ago…but she wasn’t in gatlinburg on that cold january night. that team was represented by so many high schools so it’s become a bit of a trickle-down slogan in the savannah area; i need to coin that phrase and make t-shirts.

    during the game on saturday, i found myself thinking about tim and yelling at the tv, “that’s what pressure do.” pressure is not necessarily about you wining the ball but about introducing uncomfortable situations for your opponents. you probably won’t get any statistical credit for the pressure moment but it’s important to not allow talented players to be comfortable; if you do, you’re gonna lose. pressure is the first principle of defense because it’s the most important and it made all the difference on saturday. the thing that i found works the best is that attacking players have to be given direction on their pressure; ie, this is what we’re trying to do and your role is…

    lastly, my player of the year is kieran tierney. this kid’s performance is always at a top level. ALWAYS! i, too, noticed how tierney was in pepe’s case about his movement. it reiterates my point that he’s mostly talent and little tactical nous.

    claude made a great point when he says that we can’t bunch the kids together as they all have different talent levels. for me, joe willock can leave. he got destroyed by hudson-odoi and pulisic for the chelsea goal on saturday. he has no business this close to the arsenal first team. you can’t “give” these kids playing time, they have to take it. wenger didn’t “give” ashley cole game time. he knocked sylvinho’s head off in training to get that time. vieira knocked someone’s head off. fabregas knocked someone’s head off. saka and martinelli knocked someone’s head off. willock isn’t forcing his way into the team like that. he should be long gone.

    lastly, a big shout to lacazette. he posted up, drifted in between the lines, made clever turns, and was an absolute nightmare for chelsea’s defense to deal with. luckily, he also had a goal. i’ve never understood dropping him. it’s clear daylight as to who is the best option at center forward for arsenal. i loved his play on saturday.

    1. I didn’t see it as getting destroyed. In my notes I actually put down that I thought he did well to get back and shut that counter down. Yes, he was faked by Hudson-Odoi for the cross.

      I think you’re way too quick to throw this player away. If we had this same attitude toward Ainsley Maitland-Niles he wouldn’t be at the club right now. Players make mistakes.

      1. wrong! willock got megged by pulisic and destroyed by hudson-odoi twice…all on the same play.

        we saw a 19-year old vieira, 19-year old diaby, 18-year old ox, 18-year old denilson, 17-year old wilshere, 16-year old fabregas, etc. getting first team minutes because their quality was undeniable as teenagers. what qualities have you seen in joe willock, who’s now 21-years old, that suggests he’s worthy of premier league minutes for arsenal? he shouldn’t even be on the bench.

        the same goes for eddie nketiah, also 21. when you compare him to arsenal players of similar age or younger who earned the right to play, he simply doesn’t compare. anelka (18), henry (20), reyes (19), van persie (19), aliadiere (18), adebayor (20), vela (19), or even bendtner (16).

        no way those guys deserve minutes in an arsenal shirt. it’s not because i don’t like them…i don’t know them. it’s because they’re not good enough.

        1. I’m not sure there were any megs in this game, Statsbomb recorded zero for Chelsea and one for Elneny. Willock did fail at both tackles against dribbles (though he won the tackle which stopped the counter in the first place) but Martinelli failed 4 tackles v. dribbles and Bellerin failed two as well. I guess they don’t deserve to wear the shirt?

          I love how you blame Willock when Elneny was absurdly out of position so that Pulisic could collect: Pulisic then dribbled straight at Xhaka who pulls out of the challenge, letting him run right into the box, where Holding doesn’t step up, so Willock does step up, and Pulisic passes to Hudson, Willock has to scramble to cover a second guy, gets faked and they score the goal. Sure, it was Willock’s fault there.

          I think he’s got fantastic touch and athleticism and I really don’t care if you don’t like him.

          If you think a player is completely finished at age 21 I’m probably not going to read your comments from now on, because you really don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.

          Had to laugh though at your absurd attempt to feign “objectivity” at the end there.

          Objectively, every player develops differently. Henry was 22 when he made his breakthrough. Vardy was 23 before he was even signed for a semi-pro club and 27 before he was considered good enough to start up front. Give it a rest.

          1. I also didn’t mention that Holding was in the line and should have blocked the cross and Mari should have gotten in front of Abraham.

          2. I agree w. Tim. Willock has got strengths, including quality of finishing which IMHO is above average for a central midfielder. Good engine too. Harsh to totally discard him now. The thing that he needs to improve is his concistency and reading of the game around him.

            And even though Im not as sold on ESR as others, his energy and his fight are good foundations on which the rest of his game can improve. He doesn’t hide. But Josh is right in the sense that neither of them is making an unarguable case for getting games and minutes at the moment.

            Why does Saka stands out? Barney Ronay said it better that I have:

            Saka’s greatest gift is his calm eye, his decision-making, his ability to pick the right pass, the right moment.

          3. tim, you’re going off the reservation. i’ll say it again, i don’t think joe willock is good enough to be this close to the arsenal first team, full stop. that’s the main idea of my post. all of the other stuff, i don’t care about. i don’t care about a single mistake he made or a bad game he had. all players have those, especially when they’re young. i’m talking about his overall quality on display when he plays for arsenal.

            i simply don’t see a player special enough to be this close to the arsenal first team, let alone to help arsenal win the premier league or the champions league. everything else you’re talking about has nothing to do with that. btw, everything i say on this forum is subjective…absolutely no feigning.

            btw, thierry henry was already a bad man at 19. he was the second leading scorer in the champions league and won a world cup at 20…it’s the reason juventus signed him.

  15. I agree with Claude and I think Saka and Martinelli have a chance to be really good but the other youth are probably going end up being role players rather then regular difference making players. The ceiling for Martinelli and Saka will depend on whether or not they develop the ability to score more goals. If they don’t score their ceiling will be similar to Ox, Alex Iwobe, Wilfred Zaha, Ashley Young or Willian from a few years ago. If they do develop the ability to score goals then the ceiling becomes players like Bobby Pires, Alexis Sanchez, Eden Hazard, Sadio Mane, Son Heung-min. That first group are all fine players but I would much rather have someone from the latter group.

  16. We have had a running debate about Giroud so after he didn’t feature again in this game I looked up the actual numbers regarding how much he has been used during his last 3 years with Chelsea. In approximately 110 league games for 3 different managers he has started only 28 and been a sub in 38 games and 44 did not play. In his first 1/2 season with Conte he only played 610 league minutes. He only played 834 league minutes for Sarri. Last year he played 1000 minutes and this year he is on pace for less then 700 league minutes. That level of usage suggests those managers have seen him as a role player who fills in if the regular starter is injured or needs a rest rather then someone they consider integral to the team. I think the reason Arsene dropped him and Chelsea have not used him regularly is Giroud has not been consistent or productive enough as a PL goal scorer to justify regular minutes at the CF position. I can’t think of any other reason why 4 different managers have not used him more in the last 4 1/2 seasons.

    1. As you say, it’s odd that he doesn’t get more minutes. That said, I was glad he didn’t get the minutes against us. Chelsea were pinging crosses in, and he’s better at converting those than Tammy Abraham. Also a fairly good penalty taker, and likely would not have given Leno a chance to make the save. Chelsea fans posting in the Guardian comments were pretty much making these same points.
      As far as youth goes, we do need to be careful about overplaying Martinelli, Saka and ESR. I don’t want another Wilshere situation where the legs get wrecked at a young age. But the advantages of playing them were clear. Balogun needs to be getting minutes so he stays. Even Willock, who hasn’t been quite as impressive. At one point he chased back and made a nice tackle, something that Willian simply couldn’t have done.
      One thing that hasn’t been called out are the new Brexit-related rules. Starting Jan 1, those are going to make it harder to bring in cheaper gems from the lower leagues around Europe. That will drive up prices for British players, and for players from the top Euro leagues. Meaning that with our funding limitations, we’re going to need to be even more careful about keeping British players that have potential.

  17. ESR is clearly a work in progress. The potential is there for everyone to see.

    If he now gets placed within Arteta’s straight jacket, dictating to him every move that he makes, then I fear that that potential will fizzle out.

    Arteta may decide that the relief of that one game is enough to give him more legroom to do more of the same, rather than to change his style and vision to one that fits the players he has and the sort of players he should really want.

    He has been left off the hook by the unavailability of Luiz and Willian, so he may play tonight unchanged, but may then also start to dictate to the players who were playing with more freedom on Saturday night.

    Is he capable of letting go or does he have to have his way, eventually?

    The ideal private coach for ESR would be the Ozile, but do they have the guts to reinstate him to the fold and to play as well as pass on to ESR his experience and wisdom.

    I suspect that getting rid of Ozil has become an obsession and that the powers that be refuse the countenance any role for him.

    Like Nero, they may be fiddling whilst we burn.

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