Arsenal 1-0 Leeds: front foot football

Pressure

Rob Holding pointed to a spot in the middle of the pitch. Xhaka waved his arms telling Holding to play the ball up the field and not toward him because he was being marked. The pass upfield was available to Holding, the man marking him was only blocking the direct route back to David Luiz, but in a moment of what seemed like frustration, he passed the ball to where he thought Xhaka should be. Xhaka’s man easily collected the ball and started the counter attack, spraying the ball out to the Leeds forward Bamford. And just a half second before Bamford could compose himself, Holding slid in and made the block.

Holding and Xhaka yelled at each other. Who was in the right? Holding shouldn’t have played that ball and Xhaka shouldn’t have hid behind his man. The midfielder was supposed to occupy that space, form that triangle with David Luiz and by drawing the Leeds midfielder with him, creating more space for the long pass that he wanted Holding to make. And at the same time, it looked a lot like Holding played that pass in a sort of demonstration to Xhaka: this is the space you should have been in.

I’ve seen that play a half-dozen times now and every time I see it, I think he made that pass in anger. But that’s just a madness isn’t it? To even think that on my part? To make that pass like that and put his team under so much pressure? No professional footballer would do that on purpose. So, it’s just a bad pass, right? A brain fart. Maybe he thought Xhaka would be able to get to the ball before his marker? Maybe he was just rusty, lacking match fitness?

Holding struggled in this game. Leeds didn’t really pressure him as much as some others, instead letting him make bad passes on his own. In the first half, he led Arsenal with 32 attempted passes, misplacing 6 – two of them most memorably, the one to Xhaka and one just kicked out of play. Ironically the stats say that he was a better passer in the first half (81%) than the 2nd (53%) which went against the run of play for Arsenal. And yet it was his nerves which I think set Arsenal on pins and needles for the first half.

Sprinting

Pepe picked the ball up on the edge of the Arsenal 18 yard box. He dribbled between two men, nutmegged a man, lost the ball, won it back, breaking through that defensive knot. Released, he hared up the pitch, tried to get the ball back on his left foot, but was dispossessed on the edge of their box. The camera cough a close-up as he let out a plume of white hot breath.

Xhaka also tried a dribble. Stumbling, tripped, kicked, he advanced the ball past his marker. His teammates were queueing up on the edge of the Leeds box. Three to his right, one to his left, Xhaka tried a through ball to Nelson on his left and kicked the ball 30 yards out of play.

Spiderman

“Guendouzi is a disaster” I was told. “Frustratingly inconsistent” came another. “Xhaka and Guendouzi cannot play together.” When I watched the match live, I agreed with folks. I thought Guendouzi was having a poor match in the first half. And yet, Guendouzi completed 80% of his passes in the first half, made 4 tackles in the first half, and made a critical stop in the 18 yard box. When I watched the match a second time, this time knowing the score, this time knowing the outcome, divorced from my emotions, it was clear that he was actually the best player in that half. While Xhaka hid from the ball and played in weird positions, Guendouzi was made to look bad because he was the only one trying to put out the fires in middfield.

And by the end of the match, he led Arsenal in a number of statistical categories. Almost all categories, in fact.

There’s a weird thing with Guendouzi and Xhaka: it feels like anyone who likes one player hates the other. Which is extremely odd considering how similar they are. Both have similar flaws: slow, poor positioning in defense, weird touch, bad tacklers, error-prone, and a propensity to fall over when pressured and ask the referee to make a call. And both have similar good qualities as well: great long passing, tidy short passing. I have said from the moment I first saw him play, Guendouzi was brought in to backup and eventually replace Xhaka. So what I think is happening here is projection. Or to put it in internet meme terms, people blaming either Xhaka or Guendouzi are doing the spiderman pointing at spiderman thing.

What happened after the 30th minute?

We know that Arteta yelled at the players at half time. Supposedly he drew wolves on the chalkboard and told them to play like wolves. If that sounds familiar, that’s because it is: Wenger once drew wolves on the chalkboard as reported by Rafa Honigstein. Arsenal did come out in the second half with more pressure. Maybe there were fewer tackles but there was more pressure, we started marking them. And their levels dropped considerably as well. Basically, we turned the energy levels up, they had run themselves ragged in the first half, and we turned the game on its head.

Did Arteta change anything tactically? Not really. His post-match presser gave us a little insight into what happened: basically he had told them that Leeds was going to engage them in a lot of 50:50s or individual duels. In the first half, Arteta suggests that some players weren’t interested in that but in the second half they seemed to relish it. Guendouzi had 4 dribbles in the 2nd half, Pepe had 5. Xhaka made two blocked passes, Lacazette attempted 4 tackles, Willock attempted 3 tackles, Guendouzi had 2 interceptions, and Arsenal as a team committed 11 fouls to their 8.

What changed was the impetus. We stopped playing passive, the Emery way, and started attacking them, attacking the ball, attacking their goal. Guendouzi was crucial in that regard, driving the team forward with his dribbles, and completing a team high 95% of his passes. And the stats back this up.

So what happened? The team still play with the shackles of Emeryball. Whenever there is pressure, they seem to revert to passive football. That first half was a not-too-subtle reminder of that awful system. Arteta may have been fuming at the players at half time but it wasn’t because they are crap, but because he needs them to never fall back into those old habits again.

Watching that second half, I’m starting to catch bits of Arteta’s philosophy, I think. And I think it goes something like this: we are going to lose some games but if we are going to lose, let’s lose attacking – attacking their goal, attacking the ball. If we are going to lose, lose on the front foot rather than the heel.

Arsenal won, 1-0.

Qq

62 comments

  1. I think what probably happened was a combination of tired legs , squad reshuffle, and not taking the lower league club seriously enough.
    Since Arteta didn’t change much at half time other than doing some yelling, the players ‘ attitude might’ve been an issue too.

    Re Guen , Xhaka hate – I don’t hate either.
    There are certain aspects of their game I dislike immensely, like seemingly not taking responsibility for their own mistakes.
    If anything, I’d give more leeway to the 20 year old Guen who , with proper couching , can still be something in this league.

    Xhaka? Not so sure.

    I see a lot of posters praising Leeds and tipping them for ,not only an automatic promotion ,but also a top ten PL finish next season.
    Maybe.
    Incidentally, they share first place with West Brom. Does that mean West Brom will also finish in the top of the PL table next season?

    1. Ha! Good point about WBA. What Leeds need is a striker. Bamford is decent but I don’t think he can make the step up to PL. I could be wrong. Feels like they need someone who can routinely bury their chances.

      1. Bamford is decent but I don’t think he can make the step up to PL….

        Out of curiosity I looked him up and at 26 he’s bounced around a lot.
        Nine clubs no less.
        Crazy.

    2. Speaking of Wolves…
      That was the vibe I got from watching Leeds’ play. Frenetic, but tight and focused in their system and they counter in numbers. No down time when the ball is in play. Much like Santo’s Wolves.

      Funny thing with the MG vs GX aspect, as I’d been big on Guendouzi since his arrival. Mostly as the only player always in motion in Emery’s style of play. Under Freddie and more so now with Mikel? I see his positional flaws now– more often than early-on this season. Maybe my expectations have been honed a bit.

      But yesterday Matteo was pretty damn good both ways (thankfully, as Ozil was ‘just not on’, 9 touches 1st-half IIRC). Even credit Guendouzi with a second recovery of a ball inside the box in the second half.

      The determinant in winning a taught 1-0 match from 55′ on? Arsenal pinned-back Leeds for the last 20-25 minutes. A Leeds team that thrives on the style of pressing Arsenal was using against them. The stamina of Arsenal’s play exhibited in that period– seemed almost as if it was being drawn out of the opposing players. That was the most impressive part for me.

  2. First, I don’t like Xhaka nor Guendouzi overly much, for me it’s not one or the other. It’s neither, thanks. And I thought both were poor yesterday, stats notwithstanding.

    Xhaka hides against aggressive pressing teams. I’ve said for ages that he doesn’t make himself available for outlet passes with enough urgency – comparing him to Torreira who more or less sprints into space to receive the ball, Xhaka strolls around. Holding was in the right in that instance you describe – he needs his midfielder to have courage and take responsibility. Add to this performance that Xhaka should have had two yellows at least and it was a very noticeable back-slide from the Chelsea and Man U games for him.

    I think that was a very important win yesterday though. At the end of the day you have TRUST your coach – you have to trust that he has scouted the opposition, you have to trust that he can prepare you for games, you have to trust that he can improve you, that he has your best interests in mind. I think based on what Lacazette and Martinez said afterwards, Arteta in the presser, that perhaps the team didn’t trust what he was saying but after the break, after the kick up the arse, they saw he was right. Man U wasn’t a one-off. They will start trusting Arteta now without question and that will pay off big time going down the road. I figure we’re good money to take out Crystal Palace this weekend and go on a bit of a run here.

  3. Like you say, given half a chance we fall back into bad habits. It’s painful to watch and must drive Arteta to distraction. Some will make the transition to doing what he requires, others won’t.
    I find it amazing that a team packed full of international footballers still need to have their hand held by the coach, whereas a championship team full of “nobodies” seem perfectly capable of performing unaided.
    On that showing, neither Guendouzy nor Xhaka would get in the Leeds team. No way. Neither can play with the necessary discipline. Bielsa wouldn’t waste his time and neither should we.
    Holding/Xhaka? Xhaka’s fault every time. The ball Holding played was the obvious one out of defence. Granit had switched off and was doing his usual trick of ball watching. Yes, he was marked. Shock! Horror! What on earth does he, or anyone else, expect? What you do is dummy to go long and then come short. It’s called losing your man. What you don’t do is stand there with your mouth open, waving your arms. Holding’s passing was pretty awful all game, but he’s been out for months.
    I still dont see how Nelson is keeping Martinelli out of the side. Martinez was good again. We’re lucky to have him as back up.

    1. Like you say, given half a chance we fall back into bad habits.

      Naturally.
      It’s been what, three weeks with Arteta in charge?
      At least he’s not above yelling at them.
      That must’ve been some surprise to our divas post Wenger and Emery experience.
      Don’t underestimate the value of a good shock therapy.

  4. My abiding memory of that match was watching 3 or 4 Leeds players playing “triangles” in our penalty area. Embarrassing. I was almost waiting for Steve Bould to appear from nowhere and get the cones out.

  5. I don’t follow the Championship so I don’t know s%$t about Leeds except for the match yesterday. What I do know is that was the best performance from a lower league side I’ve seen in recent memory. They could have been one of Pep’s Barca sides from circa 2008 the way they danced around us in the first half. I’ve read up a bit today and it they may be the next Leicester City, who knows? Impressive.

    We go to Selhust Park away on Saturday. I have no idea if the boys will put in a shift against Palace but I believe Arteta at least will leave it all out on the touchline. We should have tried harder to bring him to the club earlier.

  6. Both Guendouzi and Xhaka want to “write their name on the ball”. I’m sorry boys, but there isn’t time. We had the self same problem when we tried to play Ramsay and Wilshere in the middle of the park. Good players, but it just doesn’t work. I’m assuming Arteta wants to play Bielsa style football. That being the case, they’re going to be hosed out sooner or later.

    1. Lacazette too. There’s a time to back into the defender, hold it and wait for runners. But what’s this about being surrounded 3 defenders, trying to hold it off and getting dispossessed? To me, our French striker has become one of the most frustrating players in the team, when you consider what he can do and what he is currently contributing. Both his hold up play and his finishing are currently hit and miss, with his finishing largely miss. He played Maguire very well in the Man U game… but first half against Leeds, he was back to his ball-hogging, twerking worst.

      The best Arsenal teams and players circulate the ball quickly. One-tip, two-tip, give, go, move, show, receive. Rosicky, Fabregas, Van Persie, Ozil, Thierry, Pires, Santi. It was noticeable that once Arsenal played the ball faster, Ozil got better. That’s his groove. In this team, he is the best exponent one-touch, give and go and move. Sure he loses the ball like every other player, but if you watch him closely, you’ll notice that his decision to carry or offload is near flawless. Some of our players do not pick the right time to do either — Laca, Xhaka and Guendouzi being chiefly culpable (although it was Guen getting on the ball and carrying it that helped open up the game, and Laca improved by playing more on-touch).

      Know who’s beginning to look pretty special playing the classic Arsenal quick-passing, give-and-go style? Pepe. He played well against Leeds, and it was his combo play with Ozil and AMN that had United chasing ghosts.And one of the reason that Arteta likes Nelson — it seems to me — is that he interprets that style well too.

      1. Sorry Claude, I have to disagree with your assessment of Lacazette. Nobody looked good in that first half (well, maybe Martinez…). Laca does a LOT more than just hold the ball up: he pressures well from the front, runs tirelessly, draws players out of position and does a great job dropping back to disrupt the opponents’ midfield. His attitude seems good, he has great touch and frequently lays it off or flicks it to supporting players, as well as being strong enough to turn his man. I agree he is in a bit of a scoring slump, but we know he can put the ball in the net too. Give it time. We are already showing vast improvement since Mikel took over, and I think Laca’s range of skills adds a lot of options to Arteta’s high-tempo attacking style.

        1. You misunderstand the point.

          Laca, when he is not playing well as in the first half against Leeds, does not hold the ball up that well. In actual fact (again I stress when he’s not playing well), he slows the play down by hogging the ball in situations where he is far more likely to turn it over. When he does play well, as against Manchester United and Leeds 2nd half which I acknowledge in the comment, he is very effective for us.

          That was the point. It was not a blanked criticism.

          Gosh, he had lost his place in the side, because his bad play was a feature of our bad form pre Arteta. That included his much vaunted and sometimes overrated hold up play. His play is hit and miss. He does the non scoring things you describe sometimes, in patches. At other times, both his scoring and hold gunplay are frustrating.

          Dont fall for the CW… watch the games.

          1. Oh, one thing I forgot to add…

            One of the main reasons that we prospered 2nd half against Leeds (apart from the reasons Tim identified), was Laca… not holding it up, but laying it off quickly in one-touch ball. When you try to hold it up when double teamed (as he does sometimes, frustratingly), your runners make wasted runs.

            Arteta it seems to me stressed mobility and classic Arsenal ball 2nd half, and one of the features of that — Laca releasing it quickly as opposed to holding it up — is that a tired Leeds couldnt live with the movement of Ozil, Guendouzi, Pepe and Nelson.

            I like Laca, but I want to see better from him. He’s inconsistent in his build up play, and comparatively unproductive in front of goal. He’s got 6 goals in 18 games (4 as a sub) and 1 assist this season. 7 goal involvements. Those are Welbeckian returns. For much of this season he has rarely looked like scoring when he started; never looked like affecting games when he is subbed in.

            Martinelli has 8 goals in 18 — 9 full starts and 9 as sub — and 2 assists. 11 goal involvements, in much fewer minutes. He’s hardly played, let alone started, in the league, though, except under Freddie.

            Pepe, has had a difficult start, but has 3 goals and 3 assists from wide.

            We have EPL GD of -2, in part because our longest serving striker is giving us Welbeck numbers. Not acceptable.

          2. Ummm… I DO watch the games, Claude.

            I understand your frustration, we all feel it when a player is obviously under-performing. I guess my point is that we all talk about giving Arteta time to integrate his new system with the players, whose attitudes were in the toilet under Emery. From an attitude perspective, Lacazette’s commitment really stands out for me. Maybe the problem (if there is one) is that other players aren’t showing up quickly enough for him to lay it off and he has no choice but to try to hold off three ravening defenders until the reinforcements arrive. Let’s actually give it some time to see how well Arteta’s coaching gets everyone playing from the same script. Early signs look promising to me.

          3. I just want to jump in here and say that Lacazette led Arsenal with 3/4 tackles in the 2nd half of the match. All the tackles were high up the pitch. He only won possession once but he also had 3 shots, 29 touches, 19 passes, etc. Basically doubled his output from the first half. I think his 2nd half play was vital and the energy he brought to the team important.

          4. Sorry, bro, didnt mean to suggest otherwise.

            I said weeks ago, when Emery was still here, that Laca’s pressing energy (the one thing in his locker that had been working well) had fallen sharply. No one should be surprised that Freddie benched him.

            I want him to come good. We did not pay in excess of 50m GBP for a 12 goal a season striker. We could have paid a third of money and got Danny Ings. Goals (and assists) are at the top of his JD.

  7. I don’t outright dislike either Xhaka or Guend. Xhaka has a decent player in him. The Utd match showed that. But the Leeds game was a reversion to some of his late Wenger form. He and the team were lucky he wasn’t sent off for stupid tackles.
    Guend just looks like a young and relatively inexperienced player being asked to do too much. So sometimes makes poor decisions, has poor touches, or gets too conservative and passes back too much. But there’s few players of his experience that could do well in that position, with the options around him, and the coaching he seems to have had from Emery. I do believe he’ll eventually get better under Arteta. Less sure about Xhaka, but not sure we can afford to move Xhaka on at the moment given the lack of other good options.

  8. .

    I thoroughly enjoyed the second half. I loved the close combat and was delighted to see our players engage in it. Socrates and Xhaka looked like they were enjoying themselves. We were magnificent. We needed to find that level of aggression and competitiveness within ourselves. Also, in a frantic ball-moving game Özil on the ball (second half) was comparatively silky smooth and so composed in possession.
    Let’s not let all that be overlooked in expressing our respect and admiration for that Leeds team.

    I found the refereeing interesting. Something was going on – an attempt to wind-in VAR? A request from both coaches to allow the game to flow?

    I found the slip back to Emery-ball disconcerting. Arteta called it well in his presser – mentality and attitude not physical. My concern now is that after four games the players understand the level of energy and commitment demanded by Arteta. They should also realize that that is the level required to win games in the PL. How many of them are up for, and to, this level of commitment week in week out? We are about to get our answer in the coming games.

  9. Tim

    Thanks for the post. I think you hit on the real reason the team struggled under Emery and Ljundberg and it was not about tactics or managerial brilliance but it was about what was going on between the ears. The team was using the same tactics in the first half and the second half and got dramatically different results because for some reason the players did not execute in the first half and they did execute in the second half. How many thousands of times have we seen momentum shifts in a game in any professional that have nothing to do with tactical changes. Myself I don’t accept the idea that Emery and Ljundberg were tactical idiots who did not understand football and Arteta has some tactical insight or some technical knowledge they did not. Emery and Freddie did not want the team to be passive anymore then we did but they could not get into the players heads and they could not get them to execute. The team was due for a better run of form at some point no matter who the manager and I think Arteta is getting the benefit of a new manager bounce and a return of better form that Freddie didn’t. Time will tell where the baseline will settle.

  10. I don’t think Xhaka and Guendouzi are similar players. They are similar in the role that Emery wanted them to play, but he also wanted Torreira to play at number 10.

    Xhaka for me is a player that needs movement around him, while Guendouzi is rarely stationary. Xhaka’s passing can be done by everyone, but it’s the playmaking (the thought behind the pass) where Guendouzi is lacking. Guendouzi passes to get the ball to his teammates, Xhaka passes to dictate the game. Guendouzi isn’t really slow, he is just slow when running backwards to his own goal and Xhaka is just a natural slow player. Guendouzi is more able to play front footed football and get into the opposition’s faces/play whilst Xhaka plays front footed by quaterbacking. Xhaka is a ball dominant player while Guendouzi is a space dominant player, which is to say Xhaka likes to get on the ball, find an area where he is comfortable and start passing from there. Guendouzi uses his engine to scurry around to where ever the ball is and try to make things happen. Granit attract the ball, Guendouzi goes after it.

    I have always hated using a player’s weaknesses to define a player or to decipher his quality because that’s not what they are signed or played for, plus weaknesses are more encompassing of an entire squad than most would like to admit. Like how Ozil being a bad tackler also applies to Pepe but they are two different players. Xhaka and Guendouzi’s weaknesses shouldn’t really be used to define them as individuals or as players being similar.

    For me Guendouzi is an all rounded midfielder whose running unfortunately stops just outside the opposition box. I feel he could get some Ramsey-esque goals if he followed up his runs into the box more often. He has shown an ability to dominate games and be everywhere on the pitch. His passing is still more statistical than tactical in that he doesn’t do well to make the team play according to a particular plan, but he will always stand out. That’s why he looked good in games where we lost or drew (basically played badly) because he ends up looking like the only one trying out there.

    Ramsey used to have a similar problem. He was able to pick the ball up and make his ideas happen instead of finding a way of making the team’s tactics happen. That’s the difference between good tactically intelligent players (Ozil, Xhaka, Jorginho, Rakitic, Kroos, Verratti, Thiago Alcantarra, Erickson and Arthur Melo) and what I call “Crack players” (Guendouzi, Ramsey, Pogba, Milinkovic Savic, Delle Alli, Nainggolan, Chamberlain, Ross Barkley and Abdoulaye Doucouré).

  11. “The team was using the same tactics in the first half and the second half and got dramatically different results because for some reason the players did not execute in the first half and they did execute in the second half. ”
    ____________________

    Oh Bill Bill Bill.

    You must know that that makes no sense.

  12. i disagree with all who say that holding was right to pass that ball to xhaka there. never play the ball to a cdm who’s facing his goal 30 yards out with a defender on his back. sorry folks, but that’s one of the worst passes in soccer and if the cdm loses the ball, it’s going to lead to a chance. think of 8-year olds learning that they never play the ball across the front of their goal; it’s that level of a no-no pass. i’d rather holding shoot from 35-yards inside his own half than make that pass to xhaka.

    you can’t just do what you want in your imagination. you have to respect the situation, which is xhaka was marked. sure, xhaka could have created 5 yards for himself, but when the defender reads that the ball is going to xhaka, he’ll close him down and that 5 yards is gone by the time the ball arrives. if xhaka loses the ball right there, it’s going to lead to a chance, 90% of the time. it’s worse because a central defender carried the ball into a wide area, then passed the ball there; he’s not even in a position to help/cover the cdm if he’s under pressure.

    this is what football is about, good decision-making based on the situation. holding made bad decision and arsenal could have gone out of the competition because of one bad play.

    1. “Never play the ball to a cdm who’s facing his goal 30 yards out with a defender on his back. sorry folks, but that’s one of the worst passes in soccer and if the cdm loses the ball, it’s going to lead to a chance. think of 8-year olds learning that they never play the ball across the front of their goal; it’s that level of a no-no pass. i’d rather holding shoot from 35-yards inside his own half than make that pass to xhaka.”
      Not sure which coaching handbook you’ve been reading to come up with that lot.
      Perhaps you’d like to explain what Holding was meant to do exactly, other than try a shot from his own half, obviously.

      1. I’ve not seen the play in question (only highlights)but the overriding principle in soccer/ football is that a run dictates the pass.
        If Xhaka wasn’t showing for the ball, or making himself available, than Holding probably should’ve looked for another option.

        Whether Xhaka should’ve tried to be an outlet is another thing entirely.
        It’s not like he hadn’t done it before either.
        There were games under Emery where Arsenal tried to play out the back and Xhaka would have none of it.
        Turning his back on Leno and waving him on to kick it long.

        1. Xhaka hides a lot. Mostly because I think he knows his limitations and doesn’t like to feel rushed with the ball, so when we play high pressure teams he would prefer the ball bypass him so he can get it from a layoff or pass-back, when he’s facing the other end.

          The #1 skill in football is turning with the ball and a defender at your back. #1 without any question for me. It’s why Ozil is so frustrating for me – he does this with so much ease just by subtly dropping his shoulder, glancing one direction and moving the other, fake pass motions, just overrunning the ball by a half a step… it’s all fantastic. But then he doesn’t consistently marry this uncanny skill to other necessary things.

          1. Ummm…. no. I think Guendouzi has positive attributes but I would never consider him a technician in the realm of Ozil, Cazorla or even Wilshere when it comes to turning with the ball.

          2. I didn’t say Ozil-level. But watch him. He does turn with the ball a lot. He can break pressure with ball at feet. I don’t think Xhaka can do that very well. Not never, but super rare.

    2. The onus is on Xhaka to work harder to lose his marker. That’s part of the equation. I teach my 9-year old rep team boys to first make short, 3 step checking runs away from the spot you’re going to receive the pass, glance over your shoulder and take one step past the ball opposite the direction you want to take it. All to shake off the defender and open up a few yards of space. Ozil is a master of this. Xhaka is at best apprentice level when it comes to this type of movement off the ball.

      1. All true, again, haven’t seen the play so maybe I should stay out of this.
        However, you don’t pass the ball to anyone who doesn’t “want” it , or isn’t in position to receive and control it in your defensive third.

        1. Ok, so having watched the play it’s clear to me Holding should’ve never played that ball to Xhaka.
          You want to give Xhaka your piece of mind for “hiding “( a bit of a stretch in this case), do it after you’ve turned on the ball and played it back to your keeper go recycle possession.

          “Awful pass from Holding….,I don’t know who the responsibility falls onto but you don’t play a blind ball to someone who’s not showing for it in this situation…” said the play by play dude on Arsenalplayer.com, and that sums it up ,really.

          1. I understand everyone’s point. My only thing is that I know Rob Holding is an intelligent player. He pointed to that space multiple times and then passed the ball there. That FEELS to me like something he was told to do. Like something that maybe isn’t a normal pass but which Arteta had them doing in training. I don’t know, all I know is that he was convinced that was the correct place to play the ball. And if it’s the kind of pass you drill out of players at a young age, that makes it super odd that he would make the pass, intentionally, and with such conviction, unless there’s some good reason to make that pass. He wasn’t even under pressure. He had time.

      1. All the various points taken.
        However, I wouldn’t mind betting that the whole ethos of Arteta’s proposed style of play is “making yourself available”. It’s fundamental. Any centre half bringing the ball forward should have options open to him. No ifs, no buts. From what I could make out, Holding had none. What it requires is the midfield to work off the ball, something we are notoriously weak at. I Imagine Arteta was apoplectic. In complete contrast, Leeds from the Championship did it automatically. That’s a shocking indictment of the club.

        1. Totally agree. Movement off the ball is a team ethos thing that gets reinforced in training. And that’s hard to reinforce when the majority of Emery’s drills (at least the ones I saw online) were emphasizing what I’d call situational exercises. And add in the fact that a coach has to constantly natter at his players to get this type of movement and Emery probably wasn’t comfortable enough. I’ve watched Leeds training sessions online (I want to learn from the master) – Bielsa might not know much English but he’s shouting at them like a lunatic the whole time they’re on the pitch.

      2. I understand everyone’s point. My only thing is that I know Rob Holding is an intelligent player. He pointed to that space multiple times and then passed the ball there.
        ———-
        That’s a problem in itself Tim.
        Pointing to a space in plain view of defenders is not something you want to be doing before you play the ball there.

        VVD does this a lot : pulls the ball back, changes direction and after playing it back to Alison turns and points to whomever he was unhappy with for their lack of movement or whatever.

        You point and shout on defense,
        On offense you play in silence.
        The only exception is CF playing off the CB shoulders.

        1. Holding needs to stop telegraphing his passes.
          On 57 minutes he did it twice within a minute. First to Kola and then to Ozil. Both resulted in turnovers in dangerous areas.

        2. Ok, but that doesn’t address my point which was that there must have been a very good reason why he wanted Xhaka in that space.

          1. I’m not saying you, or Holding was wrong for wanting Xhaka to come back into the fold and make himself available for a pass.
            It’s up to Holding, however, to use his best judgment in deciding whether the pass is on or not. It never was.
            The latter examples prove the point. Both Kola and Ozil circa 57 minute did come back for a pass but it still was a risky option both times which ended up in turnovers and Leeds going the other way,
            A better team would’ve punished us there.

          2. Look, Im a bigger Holding fan than Xhaka’s and I’ve been as critical of the Swiss as anyone on here, but sometimes the pass just isn’t on ,and there’s no point forcing it in dangerous areas at a start of the scoreless game, or even worse, up 1nil in second half with the momentum on your side.

  13. claude, i don’t understand the laca disdain. i’d bet my house that laca isn’t holding the ball with his back to goal and three defenders closing him down because he wants to be a “ball hog”. what’s more believable is that he doesn’t have anyone to pass the ball to and is trying to keep the ball until somebody shows. if nobody shows, he may try to make a play on his own, which he’s capable of, but i’m sure he’d prefer to lay the ball off and turn to face the goal.

    likewise, laca wasn’t dropped pre-arteta. he was a starter until he suffered an ankle injury that sat him down for about 8 weeks and has been re-integrated back into the team.

    third, it’s ridiculous to compare what lacazette has done in the premier league to what martinelli has done against the likes of nottingham and vitoria in the mickey mouse cup games. likewise, martinelli has played more as a striker than center forward.

    if you’ve never played center forward before, at any level, let me assure you that it’s a tough position to play. ask theo, who sniveled and whined about not playing through the middle, only to beg to be played out wide again once he realized how tough it was. better yet, if you still play, i encourage you to give it a go. you’l quickly understand how difficult it is to play with your back to goal, being kicked all game long while trying to win and keep the ball for your team and maybe scoring an occasional goal. then imagine doing it in the premier league. then imagine doing it every 3 days.

    1. Fact based criticism is not disdain. I like Lacazette. Im unhappy with what he’s bringing to the team currently.

      Freddie did drop him for Martinelli, deservedly in my opinion. His return to the side may be combination of Arteta’s clean slate policy and Martinelli’s injury. It was vindicated in the United game and the 2nd half the Leeds game, so it’s not all bad. And I did caveat Martinelli’s goals myself…

      Look Josh, I understand and respect that you’ve played the game and coached (probably at decent amateur level), but no disrespect, I’m going to go Shania Twain on you here 😉 I havent. But I do watch nearly all of our games closely, and as an old reporter who covered a LOT of high level sport, I’d like to think that I know a wee bit about sports analysis. Im not fussed that I never placed a cone on a football field, or twerked on a defender to hold the ball up 🙂 No one said it’s easy.

      He may be out of form. His shot selection when free (against United when turneda defender and left him for dead, only to hit the corner flag instead of working De Gea; and against Leeds when he dithered painfully over clear chance) has been bad. His decision Maybe a run of games will improve his goal sharpness… a goal sharpness, btw, that’s never been all that great for Arsenal. He has 13 and 14 goals in his previous 2 seasons, 6 this campaign. At this trajectory, he’s on course for about 10 goals. That would be an average of 12 goals over 3 seasons.

      You may think that’s good enough. I don’t. We supposedly have 2 elite strikers… one is competing for the golden boot, and yet our GD this late in the campaign is -2. Do the math, Josh. Im getting a lot of frustration with Laca from other Arsenal fans. We need to get far more out of him than were are currently getting.

  14. Hold up play is so overrated for strikers in the modern era. Who’s the hold-up artist on Liverpool? Barca? Yesterday, City demolished United with a front line of Sterling, Mahrez and Bernardo Silva. Not exactly three stud beasts when it comes to shielding the ball from defenders…. I’m with Claude in that the tempo improved when Laca actually did less holding up of the ball and took less touches.

      1. I don’t think he’s good enough passer to play in that role. He has a lot of talents but buildup play isn’t really one.

  15. Leaving Barca out of this ,Pool have a great outlet and hold up player in Mane.
    Sure, he rarely plays with his back to goal but with Hazards departure Mane is easily tops in PL at shielding the ball until Firmino or Salah join in.

    1. Outlet and hold-up are two different concepts. The hold-up player is the one who receives the ball as the most advanced player on the pitch and by virtue of his strength or shielding ability is able to keep the ball until his teammates can move up the pitch to help. An outlet player is someone who is a) talented at getting open and available and b) can chase balls into space if needed. In that regard, yes, Sane and Salah are wicked outlet players. But they don’t receive long balls with defenders at their backs and then eat up one or two seconds while the midfielders cover 20-30 yards distance to help.

      We have excellent outlet players – Aubameyang and Pepe. Nobody can beat those two in a race to over-the-top balls.

      1. Outlet and hold-up are two different concepts.

        ———-
        Clearly.
        But receiving an outlet pass is only the first step in alleviating pressure you team might be under.
        The next step is the hold up play which is not always done with your back to the goal.

        The reason Barca, City and to certain extent Pool don’t have a particular need for hold up play is because it’s they who apply the pressure more time than not.

        Neither Auba or Pepe are particularly good at holding the ball.
        Laca is but he’s been hopelessly out of form.

        1. Fair point – a hold-up player would be more of a feature for a low-block defending team and required to help relieve pressure. That said – is that the type of game we aspire to? We also want to be applying the pressure.

          I just look at the best teams from City, Liverpool and Barca to Ajax and there’s no forward on those teams who are particularly gifted at receiving long passes under pressure and buying time for the rest of the team to move up in support. Yet that’s regularly pointed out as Lacazette’s “strength” in comparison to our other forwards. I say it’s not needed for what we want to do. So if Laca wants to stay and play more, he needs to press and pressure, move the ball quickly and most of all, start finishing his chances.

  16. Having watched the entire game just now I think some posters might’ve overstated a bit the Leeds first half dominance.
    No question though, they are a good team.
    Fun fact, since I don’t follow Championship at all ,I had no idea Mateusz Klich – a son of my former teammate in Poland, Wojtek Klich, played for them.

  17. markmywords, i have no problem with you criticizing my opinion. in fact, i welcome it. i don’t know everything. it’s why i love 7amkickoff; a bunch of smart dudes who love talking about this beautiful game, among other things. we learn from each other all the time and we’re respectful.

    with that, i’ve never read in any manual that you shouldn’t pass the ball to someone 25 yards from their goal while they’re facing their goal and being tightly marked, especially if they’re not asking for the ball. to me, it just seems like a bad idea; a catastrophe waiting to happen. however, this is 7amkickoff! could you kindly enlighten the brethren here on why, of the ten team mates holding had, it was the best idea to pass the ball to xhaka in that situation? if you can’t make that argument, can you explain how it was even a good idea? once again, i don’t know everything. thanks, brother.

  18. claudeivan, please know it’s not about anyone’s experience as a player or a coach that would make their opinions more legit. i, wrongly, assumed you play football, as most caribbean guys i know are “yardys” and do play football; you must play cricket, lol!

    my point about lacazette’s play is that he allows arsenal to create more chances. the hold up play is only a segment of being a center forward. bottom line, his overall play needs to facilitate arsenal creating scoring chances. likewise, i don’t care if he personally scores a lot of goals. if the team is scoring goals because of his play, he’s doing his job.

    jack, barcelona has luis suarez, who is a world class center forward. liverpool has roberto firmino who is formidable as well. those two players hold-up play is extremely underrated. barca and man city also have world class midfielders, unlike arsenal, which allow them to dominate and penetrate through their possession-based attack. arsenal don’t have that quality in midfield so it’s unfair to compare what they do to what city or barca does. they need a way to play the ball forward and keep it; up steps the center forward.

    1. No harm and no foul, breds.

      Im not athletic enough to have played any sport well. My game is cricket. I played some football in high school in the Caribbean. The rugby coach took one look at me and decided that that was a coaching challenge he could live without. When I lived in London, my girlfriend’s male relatives used to have Sunday morning football kickabouts, and I’d take part. The fifty and sixtysomething guys invariably ran rings around thritysomething me.

      So I honestly am not in a position to be critical of anyone’s play! 🙂

  19. Not a big fan of Xhaka by any means. He is immobile, a defensive liability, has one or two costly brain farts in every game, gives away the ball under pressure (sometimes when not under pressure), BUT he is pretty much the only midfielder we have who can control the tempo of the game. He has many flaws but I don’t think Holding should be trying to point those out by putting the game at risk. Mind you, this is a cup game. You lose and you are out. For me, the risk vs. reward doesnt justify Holding’s decision to force that pass 30 yards in front of our goal. A better way would have been to take a mental note, put his arm around Xhaka’s shoulder at half time and talk to him about it while walking back to the locker room.

    Love Lacazette’s attitude and work rate overall but he doesn’t need to prove how much of a hard worker he is every time he is on the ball by holding onto it for dear life. His game was much improved in the second half when he let it go quicker. His passing also met the eye test. In the first half there was a moment when he was holding up the ball and fighting with the Leeds CB and then missed a pass to Nelson 3 feet in front of him. In the second half, even his flicks were coming off. We don’t need a 30 goal a season CF if we have a WF scoring that many goals a season. If Pepe can increase his production that would make the goal distribution more equitable and take more pressure off him to be the main scoring man in the side. I’m all for him improving his scoring rate (which I am sure will revert back to mean at some point) but I would like to see more consistent CF play from him.

    1. Fair points, NYC.

      That Holding pass led to a turnover and shot on goal. It almost led to a counter-attacking goal, and a better striker would have punished us. I remember thinking in real time it was a terrible pass, and that Holding was having a bad game. I didnt see the bigger tactical picture that Tim did, and fair points all round in that debate.

      On Laca, Im not expecting him to get 30 a season, but he’s on course for 37 in 3 seasons, and is currently on 33. I doubt that you think that is an acceptable return from him. I don’t. Remember how pumped we were at getting two top strikers when Auba arrived? Laca has 1 shot on goal in 4 games.

      Arteta said this about him after the United game, in which his all-round play was excellent…

      “He had the chances to put away. He has been really helpful in giving us a lot of options. He makes his team-mates better, that’s one of the biggest qualities. As well, every time he is in front of goal normally he is so clinical. I am disappointed that he hasn’t been rewarded with all the work he has done in the last three games because he could have scored three or four goals easily. But the goal will come for him naturally because he is a natural finisher”.

      Some praise, some encouragement, but also some candy-laced candour.

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