You aren’t going to see matches like this very often. Most supporters never get to see their team score five goals in a single match. Almost no supporters get to see their team score five goals at Anfield. And on a night when your team scores five goals how many times are you going to see that same team score an own goal, concede a penalty, score a world-class goal, concede a world-class goal, and lose when a player on loan from Real Madrid takes a bad penalty? I dare say never.
And the thing about it is that it perfectly sums up this season: prodigious attacking talent on and off the pitch, error-prone defending, players giving away penalties (for a dive), and the utter lack of control when the team is in the lead.
Arsenal went behind after a Mustafi own goal. It wasn’t a fantastic cross that Ox played in, more of a poke and hope. Mustafi got to the ball with a sliding clearance, kicked the ball off his shin and then off his trailing leg and right past the keeper Emi Martinez.
But then Arsenal stormed back into the game. We were pressing high up the pitch, forcing Liverpool into errors, creating turnovers, and scoring goals off of them. Arsenal’s 3rd and 4th goals were both caused by pressure by Mesut Ozil. That pressure resulted in two errors – one from Harvey Elliot in the 35th minute which resulted in a Martinelli goal (Saka assist) and the other a mistake by Milner in the 53rd minute which resulted in a Maitland-Niles goal (and Ozil assist).
Arsenal hadn’t been perfect in the first 55 minutes but they had done everything that I think fans wish from our club. Sure, we conceded an accidental own goal, and they were awarded a penalty for an obvious dive, but Arsenal actually had 12 shots to their 7, 4 goals to their 2, and were the better team. At Anfield! Against the European Champions! Coached by the best coach in the world!
But Arsenal can’t hold onto leads because we can’t control games. Your team has to be able to control the ball, the clock, or the space. Arsenal can’t really do any of those things. So, we are a team that can take the lead but hen we do, we will often concede chances.
So, we lost.
Some positives before I sign off.
Martinelli is such a hard working, intelligent player, that I love watching him play for Arsenal. He does seem to fade toward the end of games but that’s because he never stops running. I’m sure he will learn to pace himself. If this is an Edu purchase and he can get more like it over the years I think we should just make Edu King of Arsenal.
(Editor’s note: this is an Ozil/Emery/Xhaka-free blog now. Sorry but the Ozil section has been removed to spare us from having the same arguments over and over again. Feel free to yell at each other in the comments.)
There are videos circulating of Bellerin giving his tracksuit top to one of the mascots before the game last night. And that combined with his words of wisdom last week, the fact that he stepped up and took the first penalty, and that he was there with an inspirational word to his teammates during the match shows a young man well beyond his years. One other positive, I think I can see why the club are hesitant to start him in the League, just yet – he looks a bit off the pace still. So, I don’t expect him to play this weekend and you shouldn’t either. He needs a few more weeks to get back up to speed.
Willock’s goal is just pure joy.
I had to tune out from match at 88 minutes, with us leading 5 – 4. At no time was I confident that I’d return later in the evening to find that Arsenal had won it. I know my Arsenal well.
You knew that if Emery took Ozil out of the deep freeze and played him, he was going to yank him first. It’s like taking your coffee in the morning. What you hoped is that he wouldn’t take him off if he was having a stormer and being effective. He was, and he did. To quote you, Tim:
“We were pressing high up the pitch, forcing Liverpool into errors, creating turnovers, and scoring goals off of them. Arsenal’s 3rd and 4th goals were both caused by pressure by Mesut Ozil. That pressure resulted in two errors – one from Harvey Elliot in the 35th minute which resulted in a Martinelli goal (Saka assist) and the other a mistake by Milner in the 53rd minute which resulted in a Maitland-Niles goal (and Ozil assist)”.
Poor Unai. Someone made him drink some bitter flu medicine, but enough was enough. His steely stubbornness about the player is remarkable. The man does enemyism well, and with great commitment. I’ve seen one or two blogs suggesting that he is saving Ozil for Sunday. Ha!
Before Pepe hit some form, I’d been advocating Martinelli in front of him. Now, we have genuine competition for forward and wide places…. Auba, Laca, Pepe, Saka, Martinelli. That’s a nice problem to have.
Holding had a bad day at the office. Willock could be our new Ramsey.
Emery had a stronger B team than Liverpool B, and we should have closed out that game.
(Editor’s note: this is an Ozil/Emery/Xhaka-free blog now. Sorry but the Ozil section has been removed to spare us from having the same arguments over and over again. Feel free to yell at each other in the comments
——————————-
As indifferent as Ozil can be at least he’s capable of moments of footballing brilliance. If it were up to me , I’d play him instead of Xhaka no matter who does what in training.
Arsenal aren’t winning anything with Emery anyway, might as well get some small enjoyment from things like Pepe’s nutmegs and Ozil’s flicks.
Patrick Vieira was famously a bad trainer. Under the current regime, I think he would find himself in a similar position to Ozil. Sometimes you have to make concessions for supremely talented players.
okay, i have NEVER heard that! in fact, i’ve heard numerous times how a 19-year old patrick vieira and 18-year old nicolas anelka came into arsenal and blew everyone away with how hard they trained. paul merson and ian wright both came out and expressed how they knew, after their very first times seeing them in training, that it was just a matter of when they would be replaced by the two young frenchmen (merson, almost immediately). surprise, no one missed them when they left.
i’ve heard how vieira’s intensity in training is the reason he was earmarked early on to be tony adams successor.
i’ve also heard stories of how vieira has physically threatened team mates when they lacked intensity in training. bottom line, dennis bergkamp with his technical excellence and patrick vieira with his intensity were two players who changed the culture at arsenal’s training ground.
I thought Ozil had a very good game, but “Ozil” and “pressure” should not be used in the same line, that’s a very generous description of what happened. But he had a very good game and looks great when he’s surrounded by young legs running for his through passes.
Emery lost this game – there was no reason to make any of the substitutions he made. Ozil looked fine, Torreira looked fine, Kola looked fine. If anything, Bellerin looked off and perhaps Chambers could have been brought in. Martinelli started to look gassed (but what a penalty!)
Guendouzi has energy but does not offer control of a game and again, has lapses defensively, he should have been tighter to Origi (who is a beast) for that 5th goal they scored. Ceballos is more of the same. These are not the guys to bring on when you want to protect a lead.
Rather he should have moved AMN inside to play a double pivot with Torreira, gone 4-2-3-1 and exchanged Martinelli for Lacazette to provide someone up top who could hold the ball. And you’re in the last 10 minutes of a game with the lead, go low-block and kill the clock with some epic clearances up the field.
We have no control. It was fun to watch, but really, our inability to hold two goal leads has nothing to do with the defense itself, it’s the lack of nous, lack of instruction translating to the field.
Well, you need to go watch the goals again.
Have a great day!
+1 This made me chuckle…
I’m sure it’s been said here and elsewhere, but: Willock, Martinelli, Bellerin, Tierney, Holding, Saliba, AMN, Guendouzi, Torreira, Pepe, Ceballos (maybe), Saka, Nelson, Chambers, Smith-Rowe, Leno — even with everything going on now, and obviously barring injury/inability to return from serious injuries, I can’t help but be excited for that group to maybe be the core of SOMETHING in a few seasons.
Note: I re-read that and noticed how much I hedged my excitement towards the end, but still. I’m excited.
Yep, Mourinho has a lot to work with next season.
🤮🤮🤮
[Jake Fratelli] You’re ruining it! [/Jake Fratelli]
Can I make a short change of subject, please?
I have recently discovered this blog and come to it on most days.
However, in the last week or so, when I do so from my home computer and laptop I am asked for a password and user name, which I do not have. It also gives no way of getting one.
However, on my office computer, I have direct access.
Is there a way around this, please?
when you go to 7amkickoff.com you get asked for a username and password?
this is not something built in to the site.
I’m an IT professional in real life, sounds to me like you have a problem with your home computers.
I am a lot of things, chief among them a man who does not like being called Timmy.
+1 This, too, made me chuckle…
LOL!
We lost when we should have won. The coach’s substitutions and tactics were dumb. But the game itself was a lot of fun. Playing with freedom.
Ozil the catalyst, with key passes and assists. Martinelli Gabigol. Willock screamer, AMN pressure, Mustafi own goal.
Hector’s class, Ox’s respect, Origi pops up like Mellor to steal the game. Goalkeepers’ reversed numbers, referee blunder, Ceballos’ shot tame.
Odd mix of frustration, redemption, and pain. Onto the next, where we do this again.
From the forbidden topics, I mostly refrained.
Of late, Ceballos hasn’t been cutting it. His corner and free kick taking is poor, as was his shot yesterday. He needs to step up. It’s all gone a bit pear shaped for him.
It was fitting that for his goal, Ox took the ball off his spirit animal (a midfielder mostly played at wing back), and the guy who took his squad number. AMN got a goal, but did he advance his midfield credentials? Im not sure that he did. As I’ve said repeatedly, would love to have Ox back in Arsenal’s central midfield, but that’s not going to happen. He’s pushing hard for a spot in Liverpool’s, and is a better player than both Henderson and Wijnaldum.
Martinelli must be close to a senior call up for Brazil. He’s better than Gaby Jesus. Torreira is back, baby. We should let Granit have some time off to spend with his newborn. I thought that Martinez took a big step back in this game, after looking really good in Europa. He needed to have an impact in the shootout, but didn’t.
As Jack points out upthread, Emery’s subs didnt make that much footballing sense, and probably did not contribute to us saving the game.
Mesut is the most technically proficient player that we have. We tick better with him. I bet the farm that he’d get the hook first. I’m happy to say that I haven’t lost it 🙂 So now that he’s earned a 6 game rest after his exertions yesterday, it was great to see him showing his quality for an hour.
I like Ceballos, despite his issues. If he’s available for a decent price I think he’s the right age and profile for the type of player we might want to buy. That said, he and Guendouzi are very similar and would we be better off trying to find a Xhaka replacement? And depending on the manager next year, Torreira may be sold off.
I wouldn’t take Ceballos on a free.
I don’t really rate him. Certainly not for the price Madrid would want. He is weak in a number of areas, which makes it hard for me to see how he would succeed as a premier league midfielder. I’m not really sure what he’s supposed to be doing? To be fair that’s true of most players under emery. But he’s not strong or particularly fast, he doesn’t have the remarkable close control that enabled Cazorla to succeed in the premier league—one of my all time favorite arsenal players, Santi was an absolute joy to watch—, he can’t pick a pass like Cesc or Ozil or David Silva of KDB, he doesn’t make dangerous late runs into the box a la Lampard and Ramsey, he’s a poor defender. … I’m just not sure where he excels?
Thanks for the post Tim
Yesterday was a fun and highly entertaining and exciting game to watch. One thing which has been consistent about the last 15 years is our cup teams are always exciting and fun to watch and often put together incredibly entertaining performances. It started with the Carling cup games during the early Emirates. The other thing which has been consistent is we can’t read too much into what happened and we can’t really learn that much from yesterdays game because those sort of performances have never been replicated in the PL games. We get really excited about players who look like the next great thing in during these cup games but unfortunately the same players and the same tactics have never worked the same way in PL games. We seen the same thing for 15 years so we have a very large sample size. No way I can prove it but my suspicion is the same line up and tactics would have lost 5- 1 against Liverpools first team in a PL game. I suspect players and managers from both teams seem to enter games like yesterday with a different mindset and they are more like U21 games where everyone focuses on attacking and mistakes are made on both ends of the pitch and defense becomes somewhat of an optional concept. Liverpool is arguably has the best team defense in the league but yesterday they were poor and conceded 5. All of that gives a false sense of how well both teams played. I suspect the Liverpool supporters are just as excited about the game as we are. Again 15 years of experience has proven that teams do not play like yesterday in regular games.
I enjoyed the game and I wish that every game could be more like yesterday but history has proved beyond any doubt that football does not work that way.
“No way I can prove it but my suspicion is the same line up and tactics would have lost 5- 1 against Liverpools first team in a PL game”.
Well, we’d both play our first team in a PL clash, no? 🙂
They’d have VvD, we’d have Auba. etc, etc. Not exactly apples to apples there, William.
I agree on cup games being different. That’s why you near commentators sometimes describing a frenetic game as being ‘like a cup tie.”
Liverpool is arguably the best defensive teams in the league but yesterday they were disorganized and looked very Arsenal like on the defensive end and nothing like they do in regular high leverage games. Again I think the mindset changes for games like yesterday and it makes it very difficult to use games like that to learn lessons or make judgements on players which translate into PL games. The one thing we did learn is that football is a lot more fun to watch when organized defending is an optional concept but we already knew that.
Claude
I was making that comment because I have seen many many bloggers suggest that our cup team play so well and we should use the same players and same tactics in the league games. If we played Liverpool in the PL they are going to use their best players and played their usual solid defense and we are not going to break them down and score many goals no matter which players we have in our lineup. However, if we went into a PL game against their first 11 and played with the same defense optional mentality we would probably lose 10-2.
Claude
The whole point is we can’t look at yesterdays game and say that a player did x, y and z really well in the cup game so we should be using him in the PL games because he can do the same things and be just as effective and the whole team should play the way we did in the cup games. We have seen the same thing for 15 years now and football does not work that way.
I think that people are making a point about mindset rather than personnel, Bill.
Although I’d concede that the 2 things are related; in that, for example, our most dynamic midfield does not include Granit Xhaka. And Martinelli would probably add punch and work rate to our wing, he’s not, at this stage, likely to displace any of our front 3 of Auba, Laca and Pepe. But he’s close.
Sure, some have said “why don’t we play the kids?”, but I havent seen a serious argument for wholesale replacement
My team wouldnt have wholesale changes but would include an injection of youth…. Tierney at LB; Guen, Willock, Torreira and Ceballos primarily on rotation in the middle; and a straight tossup between Pepe, Saka and Martinelli on the right; or Martinelli/Laca/Auba wide left and CF. Pepe seems to have turned a corner and is our best dead ball exponent (hugely important), but Martinelli brings defence and overall intensity, and his case is increasingly unarguable.
Bellerin is more dynamic than Chambers, but less good on defence.
So my point is that it is mainly mindset rather than personnel. Should we bring a cup tie mentality to our PL play, or are we too passive and reactive?
No one cares about the League Cup, me least of all but this habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is frustrating to the say the least, especially after the most entertaining match either team has played so far this season.
My well cultivated sense of fatalism as an Arsenal fan prompted me to turn away after 5-5 because I knew there was no way back for us.
My longer term fatalism also tells me that on current form Emery is going to get the sack around the holidays, Kroenke will hire The Special One and I will have to invoke my previously declared moritorium on all things Arsenal until he leaves.
Three years is a long f&$king time in football but Arsenal will survive as hopefully, will I.
It ‘s in the key of C Major mostly, have played it many times over the years but it’s not quite time for “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” because it it’s “not dark yet but it’s getting there”.
Look at that – George Harrison and his buddy Bob Dylan together for the first time in Arsenal comment.
i felt bad for mustafi and the own goal. you can tell he’s doing his best not to put a foot wrong. he’s putting himself under so much pressure that it’s affecting how he plays. 99 times of 100 he clears that with relative ease. my judgement is that he should have gone with his left foot but that’s only my take; he’s the professional.
mesut was typical mesut. it was just refreshing to simply see him play. his press is in second gear as opposed most. for reference, bergkamp’s press was in 3rd gear but he was brilliant on the ball so who cares if he doesn’t press with the same intensity as an 18-year old? he’ knows when and how to press. same with mesut. he may not get the goal or the assist but he’s involved in virtually every attack. it’s nice to play the ball forward and have someone who can actually keep the ball.
arsenals don’t play with a #10 or a #6 so there’s no playmaker and no one to control the game. this is why arsenal, despite the scoring talent they have, struggle to create chances. likewise, a lack of a #6 means they fail to control games. add that to the way the center backs drop off, they also fail to control space.
my judgement is that he should have gone with his left foot but that’s only my take; he’s the professional.
———————
100% with his left.
Is he?
Forget about his football, but on the basis of Mourinho’s many insults and jibes against Wenger – a hero to me and someone who has transcended the sport – I just simply couldn’t stand his smirk in Arsenal colors.
I’m worried that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I don’t know how he does it, how he manages to weasel into top jobs despite being a disaster-in-waiting, but there he is, at the Emirates, taking in the game. He’s probably super keen on the job too, he could stay in London with his family, it would stick in Wenger’s craw (the way it stuck in Ferguson’s craw), Sanhelli is probably on speed dial with Jorge Mendes, his agent…
No-one represents the values, or embodies the kind of man Arsene Wenger was trying to cultivate at the club more than Hector Bellerin. But he’s probably one of the last. With Wenger gone the club lost its custodian and meatshield. Now we have allsorts, management freezing out players, players abusing fans, fans abusing players.
Appoint Mourinho and our journey to the Dark Side will be complete.
It bothers me less than it might, being at this stage of life more Sith than Jedi. My objections are more to do with his Slash and Burn style management, which would leave us in a worse state than when he started, the discord he would inevitably create and tbh I just don’t think he’s that great a manager anymore.
Let’s hope the current incumbent has something better lined up than Gazidis’ deeply underwhelming gang of 8.
Ironically, Bellerin was one of the vanguard of players who helped push Wenger out and was one of the first to hail Emery’s new tactics and badmouth Wenger’s old tactics.
https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/bellerin-wenger-tactics-criticisesd/
Wow. Interesting. I wonder if he feels the same way now or if that was just new manager enthusiasm.
“…Emery is very focused on preparing a plan for our next opponents, whoever they may be.
It is very detailed and very professional.
The next few months are going to be very exciting for all of us. We will reach a higher level.”
My guess no?
Unless he means exciting in the same way that hitting an iceberg in the middle of the Atlantic is exciting.
Turning to Mourinho would be a dark day indeed. I would hate it if it came to that. But … part of my brain wonders … if he was caretaker manager until the end of the season, would he get us top four? And part of me thinks that he would. He can unquestionably sort a defense and would probably bring more to our attack as well, just by virtue of the fact that the players would understand his tactical instructions and he would probably find a less wasteful way to utilize the attacking talent available. But man, I couldn’t stand seeing mourinho at my club.
Granit Xhaka has finally issued a statement on f***offgate, five days late…
“After taking some time to reflect on what happened on Sunday afternoon, I would like to give you an explanation rather than just a quick response, The scenes that took place around my substitution have moved me deeply. I love this club and always give 100% on and off the pitch. My feeling of not being understood by fans, and repeated abusive comments at matches and in social media over the last weeks and months have hurt me deeply. People have said things like “We will break your legs”, “Kill your wife” and “Wish that your daughter gets cancer”. That has stirred me up and I reached boiling point when I felt the rejection in the stadium on Sunday. In this situation, I let myself be carried away and reacted in a way that disrespected the group of fans that support our club, our team and myself with positive energy. That has not been my intention and I’m sorry if that’s what people thought. My wish is that we get back to a place of mutual respect, remembering why we fell in love with this game in the first place. Let’s move forward positively together.”
A few things…
The abuse of Xhaka’s family as he describes it is vile and inexcusable. Where possible, such abuse should be prosecuted.
But the folks in the stadium subjecting him to ironic cheers were not channeling that abuse (far from it), and he should not conflate the two things.
It’s a cowardly attempt at an apology — a self-justifying, non-apology apology.
It’s not good enough from the club’s captain.
Agree completely. If he wants to explain his view of things that’s fine, but he basically said “sorry if you were offended.” And that’s not good enough.
I wasn’t offended. But it’s absolutely inappropriate behavior from a club captain, and this non-apology just makes me further believe that he’s not up to the task. He doesn’t take any responsibility for his own actions in this statement, none at all. If I or any other professional lost my temper, threw a tantrum, cursed at a client like Xhaka did? I would have a dismissal waiting on my desk by the time I’d finished cursing. There’s a good chance I wouldn’t be hired again. This is a statement disclaiming responsibility under the guise of explaining a misunderstanding, and that’s what really makes it absolutely cowardly bullish!t.
It’s easy to forgive someone who knows they screwed up. Someone who ‘saw red’ and lost his temper. It’s difficult to respect someone who loses his temper and refuses to admit he screwed up.
Hmm. Perhaps I am getting soft in my old age, but I thought the apology was pretty good. Thanks for posting the full statement, Claude.
Maybe I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. He still shouldn’t have the armband, but I think he made a good first effort.
Now just go and win some matches. This team would benefit from an Al Pacino pep talk (like in Any Given Sunday)…go look it up.
Heh, I’m not so young I don’t know Any Given Sunday as the gem of a sports movie that it is!
I just don’t see where Xhaka apologizes, except for apologizing to those people who thought that him telling them to fuck off was offensive. Like I said, I’m not offended. But it’s not behavior that I want to see or is acceptable for a club captain either. And he doesn’t address that. He explains why he got to that point, in what a cynic might view as an attempt to draw sympathy. But he doesn’t address the people that he verbally abused. He doesn’t address his behavior. Maybe I’m cynical, but as an attorney who has seen a lot of this type of public statement, it looks broadly like an attempt to disclaim any responsibility masquerading as an apology. It reads as something that is designed to seem sincere, but the actual substance of the statement is defensive and filled with justification, not contrition.
Obviously I don’t know for sure what went into putting this out. But it kinda seems like a statement that Arsenal’s PR managed to wrangle out of Xhaka and his agent. As close as you can come to an apology, sure. But sure not an apology.
Terrible, tone-deaf none apology. Most of the people giving Xhaka a ribbing/heckling in the stadium would be probably appalled at those threats against his family. What they did and what he describes are not remotely the same thing.
**non-apology
Yeah, except those threats are part of the abuse. How naive to assume that threats against his family aren’t part and parcel of a turn against him on the part of fans. Is anyone hurling abuse at Aubameyang’s family? No? I wonder why! Are there fans posting crap about him online about how useless he is? No? So…maybe…just maybe there’s a connection there.
To call it a “non-apology” or “tone-deaf” or “sorry if you were offended” is so utterly predictable and sad.
I find such comments the very picture of our entitled social media culture, that you could label his statement as such given that social media and fans in the stadium are as much a part of the problem.
I’d love to hear from anyone who has abused him online and in the stadium (no one would admit it of course, because they have the privilege of anonymity, unlike Xhaka). I’m sure they’d never even go as far as, “I’m sorry if that offended you.” They wouldn’t go as far as the word “sorry.” That’s the world we live in.
I’m fine with his statement. He’s trying to put it behind us, sow good will, and look ahead. And he will never, ever, hear anything remotely conciliatory from fans like you or those that abused him.
We are complicit in how players respond in public. It’s naive to think otherwise.
Way too late and way off the mark. If you’ve come to apologise, apologise.
I’d never subject an Arsenal player at a game to ironic cheers. But if I did, it’s not the same as wishing cancer on his daughter.
The two things are not remotely the same… he is smart enough to know you can’t conflate them. What he got in the stadium fell well short of what he referenced as behavior justification. Xhaka isn’t new to spectator sport, and neither are you, Bun.
Nobody is saying they’re “the same.” That’s the mistake you’re making. I’m saying they’re “connected.” How…seriously, how, in the world can you sit there and say that the negative abuse he gets about his family is disconnected from a massive turn against him from the fanbase? Like I said, nobody’s sending threats to players who are doing well according to the social media perceptions. Xhaka is not a robot. He reads those things. He sees the negative comments. He knows that the abuse he got at the stadium is part and parcel of a much wider reaction from Arsenal fans. And you have the gall to sniff at his statement. Seriously.
Let’s admit guilt on both sides, shall we? I know you can’t, because for you he has to genuflect in front of his abusers and give an unequivocal apology completely disconnected from the context… Goodness gracious. This is where we are right now.
By the way, “way too late”? So, you’d prefer he didn’t take a few days to think over his reaction to the most publicly horrendous experience of his life?
Such gracelessness. I expect better from our supposedly “classy” fans.
By conflating them, he, Xhaka, is equating them. Good grief, a professional sportsman got a hot reception in a sporting arena! Come on man, act like you’ve actually been to a live sporting event.
I’d hate to know that, if I jeer poor play by a footballer, Im also response for vile and nasty abuse s/he gets. Yes, we can and should separate the nasty stuff Xhaka referenced, from what he was subjected to in the stadium.
I HAVE admitted guilt on both sides. Right after it happened, and several times. The fans in the stadium, in subjecting Granit Xhaka to ironic cheers, were not channeling the raining down of pestilence on his family. You can recognise that AND think that what he described is awful and inexcusable.
Repeat … the only job of home fans in a stadium is as 12th man. The jeering of our own players is deplorable. I don’t like it, but it happens. Has happened since there was spectator sport. And the ribber/jeerer/ironic cheerer is not in the moment responsible for the vile and nasty stuff the athlete gets.
And by the way, “genuflect?” Let’s disagree in serious fashion, shall we?
Come off it. You focus on “genuflect,” but you know exactly what you meant when you completely dismissed his statement. Ridiculous, graceless, and unfair.
I comment at length and you say I focus on on a thoughtless, throwaway word of yours? Count to 10, bro.
And also, we’re not talking about “jeering.” We’re talking about a player posting something four days (too late, according to you) after, like I said, the most traumatic experience of his professional career…and you don’t like it because it doesn’t conform to how you wanted him to respond, despite a much more complicated context than simply, “we booed,” “he reacted.”
This is what I said in reaction to Xhaka statement….
“The abuse of Xhaka’s family as he describes it is vile and inexcusable. Where possible, such abuse should be prosecuted. But the folks in the stadium subjecting him to ironic cheers were not channeling that abuse (far from it), and he should not conflate the two things. It’s a cowardly attempt at an apology — a self-justifying, non-apology apology”.
And I stand by that. I get it that you disagree, and that’s fine.
I counted to 10, and still think what started all of this is your assessment of his statement.
I like his apology.
Honestly, I would have been disappointed if he’d given a full ‘everything is my fault’ apology because those fans that have been harassing him and his family don’t deserve one.
F&*k them.
That he’s acknowledged that he’s let down the fans that ‘support’ the club, the club itself, and the team is good enough for me.
Yeah I’m with you. You can’t take the booing out of context of the vile abuse he receives. That would be dissembling.
I can see myself reacting the same way in his shoes, and not really feeling sorry for it. So a non-apology is about right. If I had been there in the stadium I would have sympathised with him. Fans can’t give him that level of focused abuse day in day out and then clutch their pearls and feel disrespected when he tells everyone to eff off.
I have no patience with any of this “but he’s the captain and should show respect” stuff. Whenever we say that someone has to show us more respect than we show to them, whoever they are, it demonstrates a profound level of neediness and insecurity on our part, as well as a total misunderstanding of what respect is.
Respect is mutual or it doesn’t exist. If you need someone to respect you while you give yourself the freedom to treat them like sh!t, it’s because you don’t respect yourself – and if you don’t respect yourself you can’t respect anyone else.
I can’t believe the negative reaction to Xhaka’s statement. Seriously. Get over yourselves. You’d be incensed if he said nothing, and now, apparently, people are incensed because he said something, but not exactly how they wanted it to be said, and never mind the way people have been talking about him over the last two months (talk he’s been aware of).
I was totally unimpressed with what he did on the pitch. I remain more unimpressed with the complete lack of grace from our fans, particularly given the context.
Love what Eni Aluko said today:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/oct/31/sorry-granit-xhaka-arsenal-fans
Even if you think booing is justified, please have a quite word with yourself before you start attacking the way he reached out to fans today, and in the context of fans abusing him online and at the game, which itself should be put in the context of months of abuse. We can and should be better than this.
I could not agree with the last line of your comment more.
Booing/ironic cheering Xhaka is deplorable… but so was his excessive, protracted, OTT reaction. Those 2 things can reside in the same postcode, far as Im concerned.
Even if he wasn’t club captain, he needed to apologise. If the neighbour’s pesky kid keeps breaking my windows and I go out and clock him, we’re both wrong.
Why the absolutism? And good grief, you aren’t half being prissy.
I’m being prissy? How about your reaction to Xhaka’s statement. Sniff sniff.
Also, besides all this, I just love you Claude. I really disagree with you here, though.
The love is reciprocal, Bunburyist. And yeah, we are a small distance apart on this issue…
Cheers. You’re a good egg.
Forgive me.
but , but, when will the fans apologise to him?. It’s not as if the fans have sent in a heartfelt apology and he’s offering a lukewarm one in response.
I know this is a Xhaka free zone but I have to say I am okay with his non-apology apology. Truth is, if I were him, I would probably flip off the fans, moon them, do that Ken Jeong hand motion thing all while doing the moon walk backwards into the tunnel. But hey, that’s just another reason I couldn’t be a professional footballer. He probably should have shown more restraint. He didn’t. He probably should have come out with a more sincere sounding apology. He didn’t. Yet somehow, my respect for Xhaka as a man has gone up a notch after this incident. I think its difficult for us fans to find the line that separates Xhaka the man from Xhaka the player. Clearly, this is not so difficult in the player’s own mind. F*** with his family and you are on his sh*t list. Rightly or wrongly, he saw what happened at the stadium as an extension of the threats against his family. So I give him credit for sticking to his guns. If I could give him my 2 cents, I’d say: take your time and don’t do anything stupid like writing a PC apology letter to the fans and forcing yourself back into Emery’s selection. Because I am still not a fan of Xhaka the player.
Yup
Xhaka’s statement is a non-apology because it’s not meant to be an apology. He clearly states that he’d like to explain his actions. Not to apologise for them. He explains why, then admits his reaction was disrespectful to those fans who do not abuse him, but hopes they’ll understand that and be prepared to move on together.
What I like about his statement is that it comes across as something he would say and not some corporate speak. Clearly Arsenal couldn’t extract their version of an apology from him and his agent. Far from cowardly, I think it’s courageous of him to stick to his stance here. Respect means a lot to someone like Xhaka, which is why his ‘apology’ centres around that too.
And here’s the thing. I’m not sure why we ought to demand more of an apology? What is it that bothers us about Xhaka’s reaction? He’s clearly accepted it was disrespectful, and wants to move on towards a healthier and happier relationship. But even those who would never abuse him want him to first express how sorry he is rather than move on in a spirit of shared purpose? Why? What’s the goal here?
To heal rifts and repair relationships, much like any apology. Even if you have no particular dog in this fight you know instinctively that a house divided cannot stand. That’s where I’m at anyway. As neither abuser nor abused, I have no problem with his non-apology if it allows us to move forward. Leaving it unaddressed only hampers the team.
Now Emery must decide whether to risk keeping him as captain and how best to reintegrate him back, with minimal fan backlash. It’s that or bin him and I don’t see that happening. In truth I would rather see Emery out the door before any single player. This whole Xhaka thing is at least partly on him.
His none apology apology is fine for me ,especially since I considered his latest infraction more a misdemeanor as footballers crimes go.
His boneheaded tackle on Brighton’s Solly March that cost Arsenal two points and possibly the CL birth, …………now that was a frikking felony.
Er because his abuse was at the fans, made up of people who did and didn’t abuse/boo him.
Having said that I’m more keen that he is not an automatic starter. He can/should be upgraded on soon. For the time being Torreira starting tomorrow, alongside Guendouzi, with possibly Ozil in front of those 2.
However, Emery will be too worried about us being too open and possibly play Ceballos instead of Ozil. Atleast I hope Emery doesn’t play Torreira as No. 10.
Also, and correct me on this if I got it wrong ,but isn’t “fu#k off “in the UK a more of a “I strongly disagree with you but have a great day nonetheless “rather than a serious verbal abuse it might be considered Stateside or anywhere else in Europe?
I seem to remember plenty of PL players say it to match officials after a foul given and not get punished even with a yellow.
I also remember PL players getting booked and even red carded for the same thing in CL play to their surprise.
When in Rome and all that I say.
I wonder if there isn’t a good deal of cultural difference amongst other factors going on here. I’ve lived in a germanic country for many years. They deal with ”apology” differently than Anglo-Saxons. Here’s my take on this.
He was already hurt by some fans loud and visible criticism of him. He is proud and conscientious.
He’s a new father, probably not getting enough sleep and supporting his wife in other ways. He’s probably feeling that vulnerability and responsibility all new fathers are confronted with in those early first weeks. I believe Wenger always gave new fathers some time off?
He started getting more vile threats and comments online. All this makes them both very anxious and afraid for their new family. Emotion and stress levels are increased.
And after expending lots of energy on the field that day he hears slow hand clap and boos and it all coalesces in his mind and he reacts.
Now the culture aspect or what is appreciated in another culture. In my experience the Germanic tribes do not do the immediate “I’m sorry” response. One has “time” to reflect before responding. Reflecting = sincerity. I think what Granit wrote was his attempt to show he had taken the time to reflect and share that with us and represents a sincere apology. It has much more meaning that the quick I”m sorry bla, bla for him.
Finally, I wonder if anyone at Arsenal communicates what the armband means for English fans. The do’s and don’t if you like? I don’t believe so because all our foreign captains lack that awareness in my opinion. It’s no coincidence that Hector gets it more or less right. He has been largely socialized in the UK and has internalized that cultural demand. Paddy also with the benefit of being in the same team as Adams.
I think Granit should be removed from the team for a few games and let him get on with being a new father and coming to terms with this online abuse. He should continue to dialogue with us through the club, keep the arm band but maybe be demoted for this season to second captain.
Interesting chat on Xhaka’s statement, he’s gone up a notch in my estimation as for others it seems, and I have a feeling that if he’s captain against Wolves he will get a fantastic welcome and lots of support. I think fans know when they’ve overstepped.
By the way did you know that I also get death threats/offers to rape my daughter/and other vile abuse? I think some of you all have seen those comments appear on this site. As far as I can tell, virtually any human who either has a strong opinion or a vagina online gets treated this way at least once or twice a year. I’m not minimizing what happened to Xhaka on his insta and absolutely not condoning this behavior (never would). I’m just pointing out how weirdly widespread this issue is and wish people would be banned from this type of activity.
Couldnt disagree more, Greg. I have two thoughts on Xhaka taking the field next time.
One, the fans should give him a warm round of applause… let’s all as gunners and gooners try to heal this rift.
Two, I’d be very disappointed if he takes the field as captain, both from a footballing (he doesnt deserve his place in the best Arsenal midfield), and from the point of view of his actions on Sunday (he doesn’t deserve the armband — for the next game, until some action is taken. Im not in favour of stripping him of it)
Im surprised at the Xhaka support here over that crap statement. Does Arsenal stand for much by way of standards and personal example anymore?
Let’s go the the videotape, as VanEarl Wright of Headline Sports used to say…
When his number came up, Xhaka was pi**** off. So far so normal. 80% of players are. He then proceeded to….
Toss away the captain’s armband. Not a biggie… maybe he has weak right arm, and can’t aim properly. Or maybe Auba was in another zipcode. What Jordan Henderson does when subbed is remove it, then actually puts it on the arm of Virgil van Dijk. But to be clear, this by itself is not a biggie.
He then gets into it with the crowd, shouting “f*** off”. As the jeers increase, he then does the “whip em up” cupped ears thing
After barely acknowledging the sub, young Saka, he slaps away the coach’s offered hand
He then rips off his shirt, tosses it away and storms down the tunnel. Reports said he left the stadium altogether.
When you are subbed and dont have an injury, youb take your place on the sunstitutes’ bench. Why? Even though you are not on the field anymore, you are invested in the result. The captain of Arsenal could not give a toss whether Arsenal won, drew or even ended up losing the game. The men under his charge is busting a gut, and he is heading down the f****** Holloway.
And all of that is fine with you guys. Extraordinary.
Here’s what I truly believe. No single one of Xhaka’s actions is a biggie for me. It’s the totality. He lost his head, couldn’t give a toss whether his team won or loss, clearly had to be dragged kicking and screaming into saying something, and when he did, he equated jeers from the fans with abuse of his family.
And this is the player you guys want to lead us out? Hard pass.
And I will repeat what I said from Minute 1. Booing or jeering our own players is deplorable. Your only job in teh stadium is to be the 12th man and to lift the players, not tear them down. But much as I dont like that, it happens. And Xhaka’s handling of it, both in the moment and now, lacks the needed maturity and leadership. If in the course of this disagreement someone hurls abuse at me and I give it back, Tim can remove me, even as the originally targeted party. And he’d be right to.
Xhaka does not have what it takes, either footballistically or temperamentally, to lead this great club. That statement reminds of the one of patented blatant, sly tugs at the opposition player, right under the ref’s nose, while pleading is innocence.
Arsenal FC — as they did with Koscielny — needs to bench him for a run of games, and to say that the club does not condone that type of behaviour… not from an academy player, and certain not from the club’s captain. Emery made a good start by not excusing it, or sugar coating it.
Ugh. The typos. Coffee finally consumed.
You see, I believe that I can feel on the one hand that the abuse of Xhaka’s family is vile and should be prosecuted — but on the other hand that the fans in the stadium giving him grief were nowhere close to channeling those sentiments. This is a critical pivot point in the argument, it would seem. If I was in the stadium jeering Xhaka on Sunday (something I wouldnt do but, for the sake of argument let’s say I did), I’d be appalled, and would want to see the perpetrators brought to book for abuse of his family.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Professional sportsmen and sportswomen get jeered. They do not have an entitlement not to get grief from the crowd. Sometimes it’s cruel and irrational. Naomi Osaka was booed at Flushing Meadows for having the temerity to simply be on the other side of net when Senena had a meltdown for the ages against the chair umpire.
Mustafi held his hand up for his error against Liverpool, and to everyone’s surprise, most respondents rallied to him with “chin up” messages. He has likely received nasty abuse in the past from thug fans. That is an example I can get behind.
Finito. Basta. I gone, I done.
Claude, thanks for the play by play lol.
Here’s the thing though, the whole Arsenal captaincy thing ( the process) under Emery has been a joke , as has Xhaka’s selection too.
You can’t select someone totally unsuitable for the purpose and then get bent out of shape when they prove the point.
Even something as harmless as the “ my parents gave me the house spare key over my older brother” anecdote, which in his head somehow proved that he was a leader type (it does no such a thing, obviously, and there could’ve been any number of reasons his brother might’ve kept losing things, ADHD and such)
Whether he keeps the armband or not, plays the next game or not, none of it changes my opinion of him.
Xhaka’s biggest problem is him thinking he’s a better player than he really is.
Half the things he did during his substitution meltdown stem from this and not from the social media abuse he gets.
As for the social media platforms and their intentionally lax rules that enable serial abusive conduct ( how is Trump still on Twitter btw) , I have very little time for them.
if you’re going to apologize, just apologize. while i agree that the people abusing him were wrong, he was wrong, too. because a mob of drunks were wrong, it doesn’t justify his behavior. simply put, don’t apologize for your behavior if you’re going to blame the fans. that’s not a singer apology. all he had to do was apologize for his behavior. as far as his feelings…….f*ck his feelings!
this is more on emery. xhaka is a player who’s clearly struggling to play well in his position and the manager thinks it’s a good idea to lay the captaincy burden on his shoulders as well? wenger did the same exact thing with vermaelen and that, too, backfired. you don’t let the players pick the captain. they can pick a co-captain but it’s on the manager to pick the player they trust to lead the team on the field in tough games. they can’t bring their feelings onto the field.
Harsh to blame Emery.
Sure, Xhaka is not that good a player for us, and he picked him to be skipper. Skippers who are not world beaters get subbed. Ask the aforementioned Jordan Henderson. A captain invested in the cause accepts getting substituted. Who does Xhaka think he is? Sergio Busquets? The cause — getting 3 points that day — is not about you.
But Emery was frank and honest in unequivocally describing Xhaka’s behaviour as “wrong” in his post-match, so I give him props for that. And look, there are good arguments for installing as his captain, a player he trusts and is a good dressing room example (which Xhaka is…. his behaviour does not change that, or render irrelevant every good thing he has done previously)
But if Emery picks to lead us out against Wolves, the hothead who stormed home while his teammates were trying to win a game, his authority would be totally shot.
I am sorry for Xhaka’s abuse and the vile comments Tim has to deal with.
I worked the recent Canadian federal election as a central poll supervisor and the polling station, as so many are, was in the gym of an elementary (grade) school.
I hadn’t been in an JK to 6 school in a while and I was charmed by all the signage and kid’s posters (“…listen with not just your ears but with your heart…etc., etc) and I thought if we retained even half of this stuff as adults and comported ourselves with a shred of dignity, treating with each other with a modicum of respect, how much better the world would be.
We had a few hard and fast house rules for our kids. Breaking this one had dire consequences:
Never say anything online that you wouldn’t say one-on-one to someone’s face.
“Never say anything online that you wouldn’t say one-on-one to someone’s face.”
i second that sentiment. it’s amazing how many tough guys would disappear.
i remember just before christmas in 2001, arsenal were playing against liverpool at anfield. in like the 32nd minute, van bronckhorst got a second yellow and arsenal had to finish the game with ten men. arsenal galvanized behind patrick vieira’s leadership and 10-man arsenal won that game 1-2.
that’s what leadership is about. that’s what being captain is about; how do you lead your team when the going gets tough. would your people follow you or would they just quit?
xhaka is soft as ice cream, behaving like a baby because some asshole on instagram hurt his feelings. f*ck his feelings. there’s a game to be won. his main concern during the game should be about how to lead arsenal to victory. everything else is bs.
as a leader, people should respect you….and i’m not talking about his rights as a human. f*ck his human rights! i’m talking about respecting him as a ferocious f*cking competitor. he shouldn’t have released a statement, but a video where people can see his face and hear the resolve in his voice. he should have held his hand up, owning his behavior, not making excuses for it, and owning responsibility for leading the team to victory this season. that’s how you need to behave as a captain and thats how you get everyone behind you. everything he did was b*tch-boy stuff. if you’re gonna be captain of arsenal, you need to be a respected man.
I remember that Liverpool game too. It came just after the unjust red card shown to Parlour by Graham Poll vs Newcastle, which we lost. This wasn’t about Patrick Vieira’s leadership. It was just the team collectively saying, eff this, we’re not losing again.
Xhaka is a respected man. Not universally maybe, but that’s probably true of any one. He snapped, he’s said his actions were disrespectful to those who had no part in his abuse, and anyway, most of us agree this is more on the club. The players are behind Xhaka it seems, and all that matters is how to get the most out of them right now. Not what passes for justice in the optics department.
I’m OK with the apology, too, but I would have liked to see Xhaka resign his captaincy. I can’t see how he can effectively represent the Club after this incident. To keep him on as Team Captain now is at best ironic and at worst absurd. But to demote him (and we can argue endlessly about whether that punishment is deserved) will be seen by many (including players) as harsh and unfeeling by the Club/Emery. Stepping down by his own decision takes him out of the spotlight and removes Hobson’s Choice from the Club that he insists he loves. Prove it.
I’m going to say one more thing about the whole Xhaka thing and then I’m done.
I have not been able to give my opinion on him as a footballer for about two years because people will and have abused me for my opinion. And just like Xhaka, I’m tired of living under fear of that abuse.
My opinion is that Xhaka is not good enough to take Arsenal into the top four. I don’t think he would start at Man City, Liverpool, or Chelsea. I think the main problem is that he’s too slow and doesn’t read the defensive end of the game very well for a midfielder.
That doesn’t mean he’s crap. I’m not wishing he would break his legs and I’m not threatening him or his family. I just don’t think he’s good enough to take Arsenal into the top four.
His talents require time and space on the ball. The Premier League doesn’t allow that right now. He might find a place in Serie A – there, midfielders are given way more time on the ball and his long passing ability and occasional brilliant long shots would be great. He could probably walk on to almost any team in Serie A.
So, all the sideshow stuff about his abuse, apology, how the club reacted, the absolutely disgraceful way that fans treat him in his comments section etc etc, aside: I think he’s not good enough to lift Arsenal into top four and certainly not good enough to take us into a title race.
That’s what I hope the club is focusing on.
Also getting Emery the fuck out of this club.
I agree with that last sentiment Tim. I’d like to give you the last word on your own blog but I would like to respond to Claudeivan’s position. Two things:
Firstly, all of what Claudeivan says is beautiful logical, sequential, divisible. In his reality I’m sure he’s right! Surely though we should be trying to understand this from Granit Xhaka’s perspective. To him it’s scary and emotional. To his wife perhaps terrifying. To him it is most likely all one big shock after another. Perceived as relentless perhaps. My point is we cannot know how his mind is dealing with this and should accept what he says at face value.
Secondly, I’ve read his statement in German the language he wrote it in. It is a sincere apology, the words he uses indicate his deep distress and feeling of alienation. The structure follows a typical German format: context followed by apology. If I was advising him before he wrote it I would have said apology first (key message) followed by context. Believe me it does make a difference to the culturally programmed ear.
OK I’m done now too.
I’m VERY late to this thread.
So couple of things I don’t think have been mentioned here.
Reading the transcript in English (I appreciate may be different in German and appreciate those insights) I think its a weak apology for same reasons others have said (his teammates he was leading) but also as he doesn’t apologise for not retaining the standards of the (office of captaincy) nor of Arsenal as a club.
He needs to apologise to Arsenal (which includes fans but also other workers and even the history of the club).
He should give reasons why he snapped and that’s fine. He doesn’t mention it, but I can only imagine what has made the last few months worse was the Ozil incident.
Ozil gets horrible abuse too, but Ozil had to hire security at his home when a couple of guys turned up after the attempted car-jacking.
Completely different reasons/ incident, but for a player getting abuse, his wife pregnant at the time, this cannot have helped.
I think he should be stripped of captaincy as it should mean more (as should the shirt). Blowing your top is bad but not apologising and understanding what he’s done is why.
However as far as his ability dictates he should be re-integrated into the squad. This is not an ‘unforgiveable’ situation (nothing is).
I probably sound prissy or entitled – hopefully I’m not that.
I’m also not clutching pearls and I know I’ve effed up far worse over far less in my life.