Arsenal make huge salary savings

88 comments

1. Welbeck (£5m ?) missing in the accounting.

   1. No I included him but didn’t name him. A few more on the incoming list as well.

2. It would have been hard for Saka, Nelson or Willock to be as dire as Mkhi was yesterday, but at least they’d be doing so at one-twentieth of the cost. Plus mistakes are more forgiveable in a 19 year old up and coming prospect, than a 30 year old.

   There are a handful of games last year in which he played rather well, to be fair, particularly when he came back from injury. But what an inconsistent player. Strange decision by Emery to bring him on yesterday, almost certainly knowing that he would be on the move the next day. One, he could have got an injury which would have cancelled the deal; two his mind would be elsewhere, given the imminence of his move; and three, why not look at a player youd would be using going forward?

   Seems a nice guy and a good squad man, but he won’t be missed this season. Elneny gone too. Theyre trying to move Mustafi, but as this stage, he may still be here when the window closes.

3. I don’t think anyone can say FUCK FIFA AND UEFA too loudly.

4. Life is first about having the skill to do something, second the space in which to do it and third the belief that you can do it. All three are crucial. For some reason, Mkhi stopped believing in himself. My personal opinion is that Mourinho sucked his soul into an infernal vacuum where he keeps the still-beating heart of Iker Casillas.

5. Mustafi could do well in the U23s.

   1. That would be a cool comeback story. If he..somehow found the ability to keep his head for the entire match.

6. So Mustafi’s still here. Not made any squads, been publicly urged to go, will fall even further down the list when others come back. But still here. There’s nothing a club can do about a player under contract who’s prepared to dig in his heels. As Mesut did last season.

7. I think we only miss Mhkyi or Iwobi if we aren’t going to play a 4-3-3. I think it’s slowly becoming evident that we have to play 4-3-3. Thankfully, Emery has experience with this at PSG and had a midfield triumvirate that did quite well. The thing about a three man midfield for me is that Torreira may not fit and Xhaka is no Thiago Motta.

   1. ha, i mentioned the difference between xhaka and motta the other day. emery has to respect that there’s levels to this and xhaka, like you say, is no motta and is incapable of providing the same level of tactical control of a game.

   2. xhaka has the passing range of players like motta and xabi alonso so he’s fooled managers into believing he could be just as effective but xhaka lacks the intelligence of the aforementioned players.

   3. The only thing is that Emery was urged by the players to play 433. He hadn’t used it at Sevilla, Valencia or Spatark. He started at PSG by playing his favoured 4231, which he specialises in and tried to make the team adjust to it. But the squad at PSG being who they are, basically undermined him and told him that they can’t play his 4231 and that they would prefer to play in the formation that they have always played and known. So Emery buckled and implemented a 433, but kinda fooled his players by setting them up in a 433 and then basically asking movement on the pitch that was akin to his 4231.

8. Good management by the management team. Effective, smart and prudent -what has been asked of them.
   I suspect the salary savings could increase further by the end of January ’20 and/or summer ’20. And I also expect the club will then be in a better position to continue the rebuilding process via the transfer market, with more emphasis on defensive personnel.

   I think it is true that every successful manager -regardless of whatever system he uses- needs first and foremost a very good defense as a solid base on which to build his strategy.
   Until Pep totally and completely overhauled the defense he inherited at City, he wasn’t as successful with his system. Same with Klopp at Liverpool.

9. FIF are corrupt. That’s understood. That institution should be reformed, purified or replaced. But would you stop international football, Tim? I love international football. The reshuffling of the players, leaving clubs to join a different environment. I love meeting those unlikely teams. I love the surprises, the excitement of the big tournaments. And, I would add, the nationalist fervor is very close to club tribalism. Not sure one is “superior” to the other.
   I intensely dislike nationalism (in the extreme sense of the word) but its footballistic expression is benign to me and might even be a way of avoiding its harsher translations.

   1. I think the football is often just bad.

10. it’s guendouzi, bitches! folks dismissing this young man last year were nuts. he was only twelve. he’s so young and his ceiling is so high with his talent. last season, i thought he might have been brought in to be aaron ramsey’s replacement but i didn’t speak on it because it seemed reckless to lay that burden on such young man. well, it appears he may have been the ramsey replacement all along, we just didn’t know it. well done to the young man on a great performance on the day and i hope for many more, but i can’t help but wonder how much better he would be if he had a decent cdm providing sound tactical guidance on the pitch. ugh, he’s stuck with xhaka.

    everyone’s talking about the penalty xhaka conceded, which was dreadful, but he also got caught up and failed to control the game. just as important but that no one has mentioned, when arsenal were in the ascendency at 2-2, he helped tottenham kill the arsenal momentum with a bunch of stupid fouls. this is gamesmanship of the highest order from tottenham and totally predictable. the sad piece is, out of everyone, the arsenal captain and cdm is the main guy helping them slow the game down. it’s like i said in the spring, it doesn’t matter who arsenal signs, if granit xhaka is still in the team…

    glad to see people defending leno and his “errors”. i tried defending petr cech over the last two seasons for the same “errors” that had people ready to dismiss him and say he was past it. he wasn’t. your keeper’s job is to keep the ball out of the net but he can’t take everything clean, especially those kinds of shots, and often needs help. the arsenal defense failed cech and now they’re failing leno the same way. it’s about the coaching instilling that attitude in teams to support their keeper.

    what about lucas torreira? i said last summer, during the world cup, that he would not make arsenal a premier league title contender and £26 million was far too much for him. he’s too little and would have to be at 100% just to keep up with his premier league contemporaries on a normal matchday, let alone an intense matchday. i said there was no way he could sustain that intensity over an entire league season; he’ll either burn out or get injured. others suggested he could be the next kante because of their similar stature. wrong! kante is not a great player because he’s short, he’s a great player because he’s a badass. torreira is a good little player but he’s no badass; certainly not worth £26 million. i’m still hopeful for torreira but i’ve seen nothing to change my initial assessment. we’ll see.

    1. it’s important to mention that i’m not making these assertions based exclusively on the game on sunday. they’re based on the games over the past season.

    2. Josh, you’d said that Guendouzi was the main man at CDM to play with Xhaka, not Torreira. You cant claim prescience is saying that he was a Ramsey replacement (“It’s Guendouzi, suckas”). Some of us can really stuff with great precision, my amigo 🙂

       But even if you had said that, it’s hard to see how that is the case. Ramsey’s and Guendouzi’s games are totally different, and therefore the tactical requirements would differ greatly. Guen is a far way away from being able to supply goals from midfield, and do the Ramsey runs. Torreira (and Xhaka) is way ahead of him on goal-getting ability. So he’s not a Ramsey replacement. He’s his own man. He gets forward a fair bit, and gets into goalscoring positions, but his goal-taking technique and efficiency isn’t there yet. It’ll come… he’s 20. When it does, he’ll be a much more valuable all-round player than the Welshman. But they’re not like for like. The closest thing to Ramsey replacement is Ceballos, but although Aaron was a better protector of the ball than acknowledged, he’s not on Ceballos’ level with close control and ferrying. He was largely about combo play, timing and ghosting and disruptive positional play, when our forwards were tightly marked.

       And speaking of Torreira, the “too small” argument is not a good one, imo. They used to say that of Luka Modric (I read somewhere that Arsene passed on him for exactly the same reason). It’s stupid to write off the kid after 1.1 seasons. He’s a much better ball-winner than our skipper, and if asked to distribute, he has that in his game. Against Spurs, Emery had him playing further forward than he usually does. He also has goals and dead-ball prowess. How much do you think Raul should have paid for him, btw? What would Josh have put on the table as his final offer?

       1. I think Torreira can come good if there’s a different structure to the midfield. Kante is not exactly a huge dude. Gattuso wasn’t. Modric is small. You don’t have to be six feet tall to play in midfield. If we go with a midfield three it needs to be a tight triangle and they stay close to each other, Guendouzi and Torreira at the base and Ceballos at the top. All three are good at ferrying the ball. Guendouzi has a great engine, but his tactical defending needs vast improvement. You’d be relying on energy and reading of the game with those three. Feed Willock into the rotation and AMN once Bellerin reasserts himself at RB. But Xhaka has to be seen as yesterday’s news and should be phased out.

          1. You don’t have to be giant to play in midfield for sure. Cazorla was 5’6″. The big difference between Kante and Torreira is that Kante weighs almost 160 lbs and Torreira is 132 lbs. I don’t believe the official height for Torreira either. It doesn’t pass the eye test. He’s just extremely tiny and it shows when he bounces off opponents and is sent flying all the time at the slightest touches. Good player, wrong league as far as I’m concerned.

11. I’m happy for the salary savings, we’ve been fretting about how much money has been pouring down the drain for players who appear to be marginal to the plans of the current management. Only time will tell if those savings translate into more funds being available to the club for future purchase/salary spending, or just provide The Silent One with a new paint job on his reserve yacht. Red and white, of course.

12. We’re still not touching our cash reserves.

    In terms of strategy, I am still a little confused by us. But I suppose that comes with the twice change in people running the show. I remain unconvinced Raul Sanllehi is the right kind of DoF for us. The constant puff pieces do nothing to quell that disquiet for me. I also made a comment once that we’ll be asked to hate a player or two basically every season. It was Kos this year. Ozil and (initially) Ramsey last year.

    But I hope Edu, Freddie and Per will help carry the Arsenal ‘boot room’ culture forward. Bould too. He’s undervalued because he’s a surprisingly diffident character in public. But he’s been a big part of our production line over the years, and is doing a good job again.

    In principle I have no problem with us cutting costs. I have a problem because it seems to me the football is a lesser concern for the owners/upper management. But maybe there really is a lot of young talent coming through and this has been an attempt to clear a path for them. Time will tell.

    I feel like we’ve bet heavily on potential in this window, rather than current level of performance. Hope that bet pays off.

    1. The Arsenal strategy is simple, and finally reminiscent of a plan.

       1. Develop viable players from within
       2. Sell at or close to peak value
       3. Buy players likely to increase in value
       4. Spend top dollar only if you’re as sure as you can be about the player (and don’t violate #3)

       Wenger used to be really good at this but steadily slipped since about 2009-ish.

       So, Raul et al inherited a bloated, poorly balanced squad chock full of merely useful or marginal players making way more than market value. They are making the best of that bad situation, presumably. At the very least, I can see that they have a true north and their actions are supporting that stated direction, so far.

       As a club, Arsenal continue to be in transition, as evidenced by the roster churn. The squad is getting younger and we are shedding salary. Those are the actions of a team in rebuild mode. That’s firmly where my “big picture” expectations will be this season.

       1. It’s clear we’re in cost cutting mode. I’m not sure that is the same thing as a rebuild necessarily. Did we really need an all out rebuild? We rejigged the squad at zero spend (transfers and wages) when we got Auba, Miki, re-signed Ozil, and then added to our mid, defense and GK with some mix of youth and experience, because we were going to utilise the 2-3 year window that Auba, Ozil, Miki, and Ramsey and Laca gave us, while bringing through the youngsters in the squad.

          By ‘rebuilding’ so aggressively now, we’ve wasted that opportunity and that money we’d spent earlier. As I said, it’s easy enough to lay it at the feet of earlier management. But as a club, it is a confused plan.

          Especially because, I’m not even sure we’re necessarily stronger as a squad. We’re younger. Hopefully, healthier. We have Pepe who adds some balance and threat to our attack. But we’ve bet on potential for the most part because we’ve been prepared to lose experience. It’s not as drastic as post-Invincibles, but it’s not that far, and we’ve seen how that goes. Hopefully the players live up to their potential.

          1. Yes we did need a complete rebuild. We were chockful of crap players. At least this rebuild of players have potential, the old batch were old players who have reached their limited ceiling. Who would we have kept from those we sold post-Wenger? I can only think of Ramsey. At a push, maybe Iwobi.

             We’ve kept the young ones with potential like Holding and Bellerin. Built around the performing veterans like Laca and Auba.

             And then jettisoned the old blokes who can’t keep up and descending into footballing dotage, Mkhi, Kos, Monreal, Cech. Best of all, the transfer team has been pro-active in doing it earlier instead of waiting for their contracts to run up and leave on frees/retirement. Those guys just aren’t the way forward, so the transfer team is really squeezing water from a stone from these guys.

             We have a seriously talented batch of young players coming through with all of them having represented their national teams at youth level. And room has to be made for them. These kids are so much more exciting to watch than Mkhitaryan, Elneny, Cech, Kos, Monreal putting out their usual blandness week in and week out.

             Your 2-3 year window mentioned was an exercise in cowardice and desperation by the previous management. 2000s Wenger would have tore up the script and built around a 16 year old Barca youth midfielder or a 22 year old striker reject from Juventus, the 2017 Wenger simply re-signed his declining star player and as you said, “buy time” till he can test his luck and stumble onto another star player to build around.

             I am usually a lurker, but I’ve always felt that you are a guy that’s very loyal in your support for Wenger, and by extension to the players he signed and favored. But in this case, you are being loyal to Fresh Wenger and not Declining Wenger, and these old players are definitely in the Declining Wenger category.

             1. Miki and Elneny are on loan. Cech retired. Kos was squeezed, true (and then double that and more wages spent on Luiz). Monreal left on basically a free. Ramsey was allowed to go on a free, and Iwobi was sold for cheap. We also allowed Welbeck to leave.

                It’s not that Ramsey and Iwobi aside, any of these guys are ‘the future’. I’m just saying the future could have been phased in. Would have been better in fact, if it were. But here we are.

             2. Thanks, Gehlomar, for laying it out clearly like that.
                I wanted to reply to that post but because it seemed so convoluted to me I just didn’t know where to start.

                “I am usually a lurker, but I’ve always felt that you are a guy that’s very loyal in your support for Wenger, and by extension to the players he signed and favored. But in this case, you are being loyal to Fresh Wenger and not Declining Wenger, and these old players are definitely in the Declining Wenger category.”

                I always thought I was the only one who’d noticed this. Apparently that’s not the case. But he intelligently covers this up with admirable eloquence in his posts. Still, it shows in the way he attacks the current regime and everything about it without giving it a chance.

          2. Yes, we needed an enema. It’s finally being applied. In my mind only Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil remain now from those that needed to be cleaned out. We’ll have a younger hungrier squad with saleable assets.

             1. Yes, enema is the right word to use. Arsenal’s play has been constipated.

                “I always thought I was the only one who’d noticed this. Apparently that’s not the case. But he intelligently covers this up with admirable eloquence in his posts. Still, it shows in the way he attacks the current regime and everything about it without giving it a chance”

                I didn’t really mean this as a criticism of Shard, just an observation, because a part of me does pine for that Wenger-esque idealism when following Arsenal. The latter half of the Wenger years were my post-university 20s when I was just as idealistic and impractical as the club then. In a way, Arsenal validated me. I did many wrong things career-wise or relationship-wise because I kept wanting “to be true to myself” (read: Play The Arsenal Way). Well, we’ve seen that it can actually do more damage to your ideals and self, when it simply doesn’t work.

                The past few years of my life have been very comfortable financially and socially (read: Top 4 CL places but no trophies). But the nagging feeling that I am being stagnant long term continued on and finally I am now trying to figure out a practical plan for the next 10 years (maybe change my career, settle down, move nearer to my family).

                Concurrently, Arsenal sacked Wenger and hired Emery and now its moving in a different, proactive direction. No one knows if that direction is up or down, but neither do I know if my plans will work out the way I want it. But at least there is some more initiative and energy, not that dull repetitive inertia.

                But yeah, I do wish I was back in my 20s supporting an idealistic beautiful Club, trophies be damned. The unchangeable fact remains that, I am now in my 30s and, like Arsenal, there is so much more pragmatism needed in life.

    2. Shard, You remain unconvinced Raul is the right kind of Dof for Arsenal?!

       It’s a shame Raul and Emery has done nothing to convince you that they are good enough for Arsenal and that they mean well for Arsenal albeit in a different way from how Arsene Wenger did.

       I have been convinced (if that counts for anything).

       I suspect it will take a very very long while for Raul and Emery (is Vinai included in that list) to meet up to the standards you keep setting for them. In the main while though I hope this position you have taken doesn’t cause you to discredit them if and when they achieve any kind of success with this club. Or worse still I hope it doesn’t deprive you of the joy that may come with it, if and when it happens.

       1. My joy is more about how we play, and victories being a product of that. An occasional sneaky victory/trophy/success is fun. But playing boring football, having no fixed identity, having no players that are emotionally tied to the club and vice versa, are all negatives to enjoyment. As is some of the behaviour we as a club have now exhibited. If all I cared about was success, ie results, I would’ve been a ManU fan.

          1. With you on that Shard

13. Thanks for the post Tim. Great stuff.

    Ozil and Mkhitaryan are the top of the list of our large group of overpaid underperforming players. Wenger/Gazidis left us in a deep hole in that regard. It was great to find some one to take Mkhitaryan. Unfortunately I don’t see anyone who will be willing to take Ozil off of our hands and I doubt that Mesut would leave if given the chance. If reports art true ozil had a chance to go on loan to PSG in January and he refused. It would seem playing first team football with a chance to win big trophies are no longer on the top of Mesut’s priority list.

14. I wonder if Juventus would like to have a do over with regards to paying Aaron Ramsey a huge wage. He still has not recovered from his last muscular injury and has not played yet. Ramsey’s issues with muscular injuries are more likely then not to get worse as he gets very close to age 30. I think we did a poor job of handling his contract but giving him a big money long term contract would have been doubling down on our mistakes and it would have been bad management to add another big money long term underperforming contract.

    1. Juventus are handling him right because they value him, and because they have great depth in midfield. Ramsey was overplayed by Emery, as per his own admission.

       I also wonder if once it became clear Arsenal weren’t going to keep their word and sign him up, he picked Juventus partly because of their injury management. I’m not aware specifically, but it does seem to me some players have had less issues there. Italy is also among the best at sports science and physio. (And they have a less physically demanding league)

       1. If playing Ramsey barely over 2000 minutes a season is overplaying him then letting him go to Juve, who can afford to wrap him in wool throughout the season, was definitely the right decision.

          1. Yeah except it wasn’t spread across the season. He wasn’t played at the start.

       2. Shard

          Blaming Rasmey’s muscular injury issues on Emery has zero logic when the reality is he has struggled with the exact same type of injuries for several years before Emery came on board. The idea that any team has a formula which can successfully manage someone who is prone to these type of injuries is not realistic. A team like ours who has to watch its money can’t afford to make a big money long term commitment to a player whose history clearly indicates he will be spending a significant amount of his time recovering from a pulled muscle.

          1. I repeat: Ramsey was overplayed by Emery, as per his own admission.

             1. Emery was over-reliant on Ramsey, that’s for sure. His main tactics consist of fullbacks to carry the ball forward and a midfield “disruptor” No.10 to draw defenders out of position. It’s a more tactical and coached approach that puts tremendous physical demands on the full backs and the 10. It’ll be interesting to see Ceballos’ run stats and injury record by season’s end. The cynic might say that’s why his loan makes sense because otherwise we would need to have an injured player on our books long term.

15. I heard suggesting that Pepe may be the next Gervinho. Obviously its way to early to suggest something like that but the stats of our recent players coming from France have not come anywhere close to matching their stats or their effectiveness when they come to England. Hopefully Pepe and reverse the trend.

    I remember the post we did on wingers and comparing higher level stats and how great Pepe looked on paper. We love to discuss those stats on this blog. If reports are true the stat program Arsene used highlighted players such as Xhaka, Mustafi, Elneny and Lucas Perez which is why we spent close to $100M on those players. However, .football is not like American baseball and I think the higher level stats especially the passing and defensive stats are often not accurate in predicting a players effectiveness.

16. A lot of talk here about Ozil, as if he’s some unwanted step-child.

    Mesut is still our most technically gifted player. You cant have a squad consisting only of workhorses. You need a few thoroughbreds. This is the club of Bergkamp, Pires and Rosicky, man. Im not suddenly going to go off Ozil because a tactically rigid coach doesn’t like him, or finds it difficult to accommodate him. Ozil’s return to the squad after the Emery freeze coincided with an uptick in our form. What short memories we have.

    The obvious last sub against Spurs on Sunday was Mesut Ozil. He’s have taken at least one chance that the hapless Mkhi fluffed. We now know that he had one foot on the plane.

    1. Claude-I couldn’t agree more with the assertion that Ozil should’ve been subbed on. So little to lose, seemed a good opportunity for him. I wonder what runs through Emery’s brain when deciding who to sub on. Surely he knew Mkhi was on his way out and that would affect his play. A poor decision in my opinion. Mkhitaryan hasn’t looked a bit convincing for a long time, and the club didn’t stand to gain anything by giving a confidence-boosting run out that wouldn’t do anything for the scoreline.

       I’m sure this has been hashed over several times already, but I also think Xhaka should’ve come off for Ceballos, rather than Torreira. What did Xhaka offer, aside from slowing play down?

       1. Emery’s been unafraid to yank Ramsey, Ozil and Lacazette, notwithstanding their good play, visible annoyance, or the unpopularity of that decision with the fans. The notable exception is Granit Xhaka. Granit needs to destroy those compromising Snapchats of the coach 🙂 😉

          Amy Lawrence wrote that Emery wanted Nzonzi instead of Torreira, but was overruled by the management. He likes his DMs big and with physical presence, she suggests. But Xhaka is not a good user of his size. He often gets beaten and outrun and has to foul his man. He committed the most fouls on Sunday. Gary Neville said he’s the experienced player who least plays like an experienced player.

          Xhaka himself is going to take the decision to drop him out of Emery’s hands, because the costliness of his errors is not sustainable. His terrible tackle on Son apart, he added nothing to our flow on Sunday… Guendouzi dictated. There is a much replayed clip where he fails to find a scooting Pepe, taking time to switch the ball to his left foot when an instant right foot pass would have beaten Spurs’ high line. You know those training videos that arsenal.com likes to share? In one of them, Mkhi has a go at him for not using his right foot.

          Let’s face it… Granit Xhaka is mostly terrible in Arsenal’s midfield, though he has the odd good game or good passage of play. Emery’s faith in him only hardens my doubts about Emery.

    2. “You need a few thoroughbreds. This is the club of Bergkamp, Pires and Rosicky, man.”
       You could maybe add Santi and Cesc to that list.

       Well the team has brought in a few good technicians this season. There is Ceballos and Pepe.
       Thankfully Ceballos looks like the hybrid work-horse technician that Emery wants.

    3. The problem was that Pepe is strictly a right-winger, Laca coming off meant Emery needed to either bring in another centre forward or move Auba into the middle. We don’t have another centre forward. OK, then who can he put on the left to help Kolasinac? Not Ozil. I agree, Ozil would have provided more offensive quality but Kola would have gotten zero help on the left flank. Spurs would have seen that and overloaded their right flank, every ball would be sent that way hoping for a breakdown. Emery didn’t have much choice but to put Mhkyi on because if nothing else, Mhki will work and track back.

       1. I’ve just re-thought my post… perhaps he could have moved Pepe central and brought Ozil on the right side where AMN didn’t need as much help. Either way, I don’t think Emery trusts Ozil to put in a shift defensively.

17. The pre-season signals on Ozil from both club and coach were that he’s fully reintegrated into the squad. We even played through him in the middle in a freer role than previous. Then the attacks on him happened, and Emery seemed more annoyed than anything else, and he’s been cut out again.

    Ceballos, Nelson, Pepe should all help. But none of them has the vision of Ozil. Vision which really could have been useful against Spurs. There may not be a repeat of last season when Emery was forced to turn to Ozil after the BATE loss. But if Ozil is a waste of money, a large part of that is on management, and not him. Them trying to force him out may have cost us 40-50m pounds already, and threatens to do so again. I don’t think it’s about his footballing ability. It’s either money or personal, or both.

    PS. I think part of the reason Iwobi was sold was his ‘rebellion’ in supporting Ozil.

    1. This ‘Emery is a bad coach because he doesn’t play Ozil’ thing is frankly disturbing.

       Ozil isn’t the biggest player at Arsenal at the moment in the absolute sense of the word considering transfer fees and performances (see Auba, Laca & Pepe for the former). So what reason is there for Emery to feel obligated to play or accommodate him.

       He is the highest-paid and is very popular with the fans. He was the creative force of the team but (on recent evidence) not so anymore. His almost superhuman vision for a pass is unrivaled in the squad, but it was Guendouzi who was splitting the Spurs defense with an inch-perfect pass for the second goal when we needed it on Sunday. You’ll find out that Ceballos and Pepe are specialists in the ‘vision for a pass’ department too.

       All this is to say this team doesn’t need to be reliant on Ozil for the qualities he brings as some think it needs to be. The team is moving on past that stage (if it hasn’t already).

    2. Emery is a bad coach because he doesn’t play Ozil because he doesn’t like Ozil?
       So Emery hasn’t earned the right to decide how and when he wants to use a player (Ozil in this case) in the Arsenal squad?
       So what’s good for Arsenal is that Emery should either accommodate Ozil in his starting 11 every game or better still leave the club for Ozil?

       Considering transfer fees and/or performance Ozil is not the biggest player at Arsenal at the moment. Not any bigger than a Xhaka for example. Not anywhere close to the stature of Neymar for example.

       So what reason is there for a coach (Emery in this case) to feel obligated to play or accommodate him regardless of anything else?

       1. Emery has the right to use his squad however he wants. Why bring in things I didn’t question? He’s not using his squad effectively, is what I’m saying. And that this has, and might again, cost Arsenal (points and money)

          I also mentioned Ceballos and Pepe, saying they will help make up for not using Ozil, so not sure what your point is.

          I don’t think Ceballos is the creative force he’s being made out to be. He’s technically great and adds ability on the ball which will open up space. But I see him as more a ferrier than a passer. Early impressions only. This is not a complaint about Dani. I guess he’s halfway between a Ramsey and an Ozil. Which seems to be exactly the sort of player Emery wants.

    3. He is the highest-paid player in the Arsenal squad and he is popular with the fans.
       He was the creative force of the team (not so much anymore on recent evidence) and used to be the only real one, but not after we’ve brought in Ceballos and Pepe.
       His almost superhuman vision for a pass is undoubtedly unrivaled in the squad. But it was Guendouzi that was splitting the Spurs defense with an inch-perfect pass assist for the second goal when we needed it on Sunday. And you’ll find out Pepe and Ceballos are really good in the ‘vision for a pass’ department.
       All this is not to say Ozil has become a bad player or a less talented one than he used to be. Far from it! Very far indeed!
       What it means though is that the team doesn’t need to be reliant on Ozil for the quality he brings as much as some think it needs to be. The team is moving on past that stage -if it hasn’t already. That was always going to be the case someday. And it appears that day is today.

18. Santi and Cesc weren’t big, but they were incredibly difficult to knock off the ball. They had the skill and touch to make a little space for themselves. My worry about Torreira is that he doesn’t seem able to do this. I’ve lost count of the number of times he ends up on the floor. He won’t be used to the non stop challenges in midfield that you get in English football. It will be interesting to see if he can adapt. Hope so.

19. When I was watching the La Liga opener Bilbao v Barcelona, and trying to focus on the tactics, a random thought occurred to me. Do Spanish coaches not travel well? I could think of only Rafa Benitez and Guardiola as the exceptions.

    And since people seem to enjoy psychoanalyzing me rather than focus on the argument, I can say I wasn’t thinking of Emery then, but I wouldn’t include him in the list because 1 title at PSG doesn’t really cut it.

    But, as a discussion, have there been others? Is it to do with the tactical setup of the league, or is it just that not many have moved abroad? Or is it nothing.

20. I see a lot of Ozil should’ve been brought on late to influence the game thrown around.
    Has he ever though?
    I struggle to recall one game in Ozil’s Arsenal career when he influenced any game as a late sub, let alone a high intensity NLD, especially when he hasn’t played recently or even practiced regularly.

    Also, I see a lot of references to how shockingly poor of a sub Mkhi was under the circumstances.
    Really?
    He linked up with Kola very well on few occasions and if it weren’t for Kola’s mistimed run in the buildup to the disallowed goal , Arsenal would be sitting pretty on 9 points and we’d be talking about possibly the greatest NLD come back in recent memory.

    1. No, Tom, Mhki did not “link up well” with anyone. He couldnt trap a bag of cement, let alone a football. And we did not win, so we’re not talking about the greatest nod comeback in history. Funny correlation, that.

       I know you love being contrarian, and that can add to debate. But what you said about Mhki playing well is simply not true. I’d say that his cameo was momentum stifling, and actually contributed to us NOT winning a winnable game.

21. I didn’t say Mkhi played well Claude.
    I said his contribution in the context of his sub , as well as his sub itself wasn’t shockingly bad.
    That’s all.
    It has nothing to do with me being a contrarian.
    The free kick routine Ceballos to Mkhi to Kola from witch Sok scored is a form of link up play isn’t.

    1. Mkhi was pretty bad. And in a strange way. Couldn’t trap easy passes. Couldn’t keep the ball when under no pressure. Perhaps he knew he was gone and was unfocused, or perhaps we were actually watching him have a sort of long seizure the whole time and just didn’t realize it. We may never know the truth.

22. At one point in his career Ozil was one of the top 5 creative players in the world. However Father Time catches up with all players and even for the greatest players in history there comes a time when the vision to see and the ability to execute those great passes fades. Based on the preponderance of evidence, the only logical conclusion is Ozil’s days as a great player are in the past and anyone who has watched his decline in effectiveness over the last 3 years can’t ignore reality. We can’t blame Emery because the decline started well before Emery arrived and Ozil’s lack of any consistent influence last season was most likely just the natural continuation of the decline.

    1. So what exactly does this ‘Father Time’ decline mean? Players lose their fitness and ability to move quickly with age and/or injury. What they do not lose is the ability to read the game, spot a pass, or their touch. What exactly do you think has happened to Ozil?

       Also, Ozil’s chance creation has taken a severe dip only under Emery. It has been stable in all years before, and exceptionally good in 2015/16.

    2. Last season is inconclusive as to Ozil’s ability. A large part of it was spent a battle with a new coach with a system that would not accommodate him… a coach who expended enormous energy in shoving him out of the door, including trying to flog him to PSG in January. Of course his productivity dived. Whose wouldn’t? When he came back into the team after our dire results, we looked a better knit attack.

       Yes, players decline with age, outfield footballers sometime round 32, 33. Ozil is 30, and has hardly kicked a ball in the past year. I find your assessment to be not based on much.

       Of course there are weaknesses in his game, including defending and tackling. I couldnt for example see him making the ball recovery that Cebellos did to set up Aubameyang against Burnley. But he’s our most technically accomplished player. There should be a place for him. But hey, any properly run business makes hard-nosed VFM decisions, and I wouldnt blame Arsenal for doing so. The club left the very strong impression that the major problem with Mesut was the size of his wages, in relation to his value to the coach and his system..

    3. And Bill, you say….

       “….his decline in effectiveness over the last 3 years can’t ignore reality. We can’t blame Emery because the decline started well before Emery arrived.”

       That’s just flat out wrong. The season before Emery arrived he was the 3rd most creative player in Europe after Payet and Neymar. And if you go back the decade from and including that season, he has been the most creative player in Europe period.

       We are letting Emery (and to some extent Arsenal management) off the hook here. The thing that should worry all gooners is how we managed to so steeply depreciate one of our key assets. If Ozil gets good minutes and bombs this season, I’ll say fair play. Last season tell us nothing, because the season before (and the ones before), he was putting up chart-topping numbers.There certainly hasn’t been the 3 year decline that you assert.

       Emery’s arrival and Wenger’s departure are directly correlated to his nosedive in numbers last season.

23. Claudeivan

    Ozil’s goal and assist totals in Arsenal’s league games have been 25, 17, 12, 7 in the last 4 years. Playing for Germany in Euro16 and World Cup he has 1 goal and 1 assist in his last 10 games. Suggesting that his effectiveness has not been on a steady decline makes no sense unless you choose to completely ignore what our eyes have been seeing when we have watched the games in the last few years. The percentage of games where he has not been effective has steadily increased during that time and the numbers just support what our eyes have been seeing.

24. Shard

    Part of every great player declining with age is the things that used to happen automatically just don’t happen that way anymore. When he was on the pitch last Ozil had plenty of the ball in the attacking 1/3 and he also had the best group of attacking players to pass the ball in his Arsenal career. He would have had plenty of opportunities to play the final pass but that leads to a goal but the frequency of him making those passes which were once his forte (for both Germany and Arsenal) has steadily declined. I am 100% certain that Emery or Joachim Low did not tell Ozil not avoid trying to make those passes if he saw an opportunity but Ozil either has not been seeing the opportunities or he did not execute the pass. Fading of the ability to see the opportunities and execute those passes in the split second they are available is part of what happens when players hit the downside of their career arc. That seems pretty straightforward.

25. Ozil has been playing at the top level of European football and playing 50 games or more per year since he was a teenager and there are a lot of miles on his legs. He has played for some of the best clubs and international teams in the world. He has won every big trophy and has world wide recognition and a huge fan club. He has made several hundred million dollars in wage and endorsements. For the last few years he has been playing for a squad that had a declining team culture and declining results and looking a several year rebuilding cycle and the best he could hope for was a deep run in the FA cup or the Europa league. On top of that he now has his biggest contract of his career and he knows as well as anyone that it will be last big contract so he does not have that next contract to play for. I can certainly understand why it might get more and more difficult to keep the fire in the belly at this point.

    Its possible that a change of scenery and a new manager and a team that has a real chance to win big trophies might reenergize him but I doubt he will ever be close to being the best #10 in the world again no matter where he goes. If reports are true he had the chance to go on loan to PSG in January. Its complete speculation on my part but I suspect the chance to play more minutes for a another team with realistic big trophy chances are probably no longer on the top of his priority list

26. Shard

    To suggest that Ramsey’s injury was a direct results of how many minutes he played and it would not have happened if he had played fewer minutes is faulty logic when you look at his history. Ramsey has had recurring soft tissue injuries every season for about half a decade no matter how minutes he has been asked to play. Its a function of his protoplasm and no team or manager can change that.

    1. Your original proposition was that Juventus may perhaps regret paying Ramsey the wage they do, because he’s missed their first two league games. Meanwhile, Kieran Tierney was signed when injured, and we’ve now sold Monreal too. Do we regret signing Tierney for 25m?

       It is not a case of whether injuries can be stopped from happening, but how well you manage them. Emery mismanaged Ramsey and HE SAID THIS HIMSELF, even though he blamed Ramsey for it, as is his wont.

       As for Ozil’s passing efforts. Yeah sure. The setup has nothing to do with it. Our heatmaps just somehow show these emptier spots in the middle and concentration around the flanks. Nothing to do with Emery, just Ozil’s declining ability. Sheesh.

27. I am 99% certain our front office and manager would be happy to allow Ozil to leave if there was another big club that wanted him and if Ozil was willing to move. I assume the reason he is still with Arsenal is the worlds other big clubs believe that ability to influence the game no longer comes very close to matching his wages or Mesut does not want to leave.

28. Shard

    I think Juve will regret paying Ramsey the huge wage package. We have been watching the same thing for the last 5 years. He plays well for a few weeks then he pulls a muscle and is out for 3 -4 weeks. When he comes back it takes a couple of weeks to regain match fitness and form and once he finally get back to playing well it only takes a few weeks before he gets injured again. That cycle clearly limited his productivity and effectiveness over the course of the last 5 seasons and its not very likely that it going to get better as he closes in on his age 30 years.

    With regard to Ozil, his ability to make those final passes and create goals has been consistently fading for over 3 years and its probably not a coincidence that his drop in his productivity in terms of goals and assists seemed to accelerate significantly about the time he signed the new contract which happened while playing for Arsene.

    1. Bill,

       I was prepared to argue with you about Ramsey’s injury record but then I went to transfermarkt and checked: you are correct. He goes a few weeks, then gets an injury and is out for a few weeks. All of them are muscular. He’s only played one full season without injury 2012/13 and the season before was almost entirely injury free.

29. Tim

    I love Aaron Ramsey as a player but the last game he played was April 18 so he has been out 4 1/2 months with this current soft tissue injury. It will probably take him about 1 month to get back into game shape and then another week or 2 to find some good form and just about the time he finds his best form he pulls another muscle and starts the cycle again. Nothing is guaranteed but the likelyhood is that a team which gives him a big wage long term contract is going to be disappointed and feel like they made a bad investment.

    1. When you shatter your tibia, the effect tends to linger, despite the best surgery in the world .

       “He pulls a muscle.” Gah. I mean, how dare he do that and not be consistently fit?

       We will see, won’t we, if playing in a less demanding league with a winter break makes him stop doing those dastardly muscle pulls.

       1. I really don’t think Bill is blaming Ramsey for his own injuries. This is a bit of a straw man, don’t you think? The point is that he definitely spent a lot of time injured and recovering over the last 7 years at Arsenal. By your own admission it’s better for him to not play in such a demanding league as the Prem.

          1. That’s exactly how it comes across. Like he’s blaming the player for inconveniently “pulling a muscle” (which in itself is flip, offhand description of a recurrent injury following a leg-break). You call my response a straw man… I find Bill’s framing maddening. Yes, in case we’ve forgotten, there were gooners who frequently expressed irritation with Diaby’s sending in frequent “sicknotes”.

             Juventus are paying him what the market will bear, counterbalanced by the fact that he’s free. Unlike Bill, I think they know what theyre doing in Turin.

             1. Juventus are paying him what the market will bear, counterbalanced by the fact that he’s free. Unlike Bill, I think they know what theyre doing in Turin.
                ———————-
                400k per week……….I don’t know. Seems we’ve been here before debating the Sanchez to United deal.
                United got burnt pretty badly on that one.
                I’m sure Juve players aren’t a jealous bunch though and Ramsey making four times what their other midfielders are on will have no bearing on how they feel about their own wages, as opposed to Pogba and DeGeas’ of this world.

             2. What would you have advised the money men in Turin to pay him, Tom? Bearing in mind that in cases of no transfer fee, some of his putative transfer value is transferred to the player.

    2. You know what also tends to happen with age? Players start to be more aware of their bodies and take better care of themselves.

       Juventus’ goal is to win the CL. Ramsey has the quality to help them. They are aware of his injury record and still decided to pay him big wages. They are being careful with him, and Ramsey is being careful too. He’s not going to play for Wales right now, even though he’s back in full training, and played 20 mins in the last pre-season game.

       Would Arsenal have regretted tying him down? I highly doubt it. But what you were doing is trying to justify Arsenal’s decision by imagining a situation at his new club, based on no evidence other than the fact that he’s not fully recovered from the injury he got playing for us. That’s low, and I think that’s why claude got annoyed too.

       1. Ramsey’s performance numbers need to be managed more carefully than most other players.
          I had a chart of his minutes in all competitions leading up to his injury, and his workload was on par or lighter than other PL players playing his position.
          This , however , didn’t include distance covered and number of sprints per minutes played so I decided not to use it here, but the Idea that Ramsey will somehow sprint slower or less frequently because he’s now in the slower league seems a bit fanciful to me, but I do wish him well.

          1. Whether he does or not is speculation. Also why I speculated that part of the reason for joining Juventus may be their injury management protocols. Based on personal information and experience, I believe Italy are considered to be among the leaders in dealing with football related injuries. Juventus are the biggest and richest club in Italy so I expect them to be reaping the benefits of that as well.

             Also that 400k a week may not be an accurate figure. It probably included his signing on and appearance bonuses. Remember that it is in Arsenal’s favour to make it look like Ramsey was never going to sign, when they reneged on the deal. Which btw was my biggest issue with them.

             1. Capology lists Ramsey at 250k euros a week. On par with Rabiot. Just behind Higuain and De Ligt, and just ahead of Pjanic.

                250k euros a week seems very similar to the reported deal he had agreed with Arsenal.

             2. That’s where I went.

             3. I honestly dont know what the argument is. Wage and transfer negotiations are an inexact science, so these things will always be relative.

                The guys running one of the most successful clubs in the history of the game surely did their homework, and know what they are doing — but that doesnt mean that they cant get out negotiated on a deal. Juventus are also very frugal by the standards of big European clubs. They’re not mugs. They also would have analysed the player, and how they’re going to use him.

                I ask Tom upthread — given his c
                questioning of the 400k(??) figure, what he would have advised the wise men in Turin to pay Ramsey. Particularly since Ramsey’s agent made sure that some of transfer value, for which they paid zero, is reflected in his salary. Looking forward to his answer.

30. The Ozil Problem!

    We spoke at length about this prior to last season when there were legitimate questions being asked of the wisdom of hiring a manager who we knew ahead of time would be the oil to the liquid style of our most prestigious player. Then, as now, the refrain of “we will see” yielded predictable results. Emery didn’t trust Ozil (not without reason), and Ozil didn’t do enough to secure his place in the side with the notable exception of the effervescent display against Leicester and to a lesser degree, one or two games on either side of that display.

    In the playmaker’s defense:
    1) Emery’s chosen system, historically, is a 4-2-3-1. Last year was a tactical hodgepodge with team selection driven by short term priorities and the need to cover up glaring deficiencies in multiple areas. Ozil just wouldn’t fit in a team already struggling to maintain any semblance of defensive organization. That’s not necessarily his fault; a better team building strategy would’ve surrounded him with physically imposing grafters in midfield to complement his artistry and channel running forwards to give him targets up front. (It does however reflect that he is a luxury that his coach didn’t feel his team could afford in most matches, which rather renders his outstanding talent on the ball moot.)

    2) Ozil personally was coming off of a very difficult year. I don’t think we do enough justice to a player’s psychological health when considering factors in play for declining performance, particularly if that decline comes in the player’s physical prime. We don’t need to rehash the Germany team failure and subsequent acrimony or the Erdogan photo op in too much detail, but it is worth pointing out that either one of those events, let alone both together, would take a substantial toll on a player and can reasonably justify at least some extent of a dip in performance, from this view at least.

    So what will become of Ozil in 2019-2020? The refrain, as ever, is “we will see.” But I will go out on what I feel is a rather large and sturdy limb and state my belief that we will see more of the same from Ozil. He will not be trusted in the more difficult fixtures, he will seldom be played in his preferred role behind the striker and apart from a few shining moments his season will most likely be defined by a further slip in importance and influence. The arrivals of Ceballos and Pepe have all but sealed his fate in Arsenal colors, and that is for the better as far as Arsenal is concerned.

    1. When Pepe was brought in along with Tierney, I think the 4-3-3 became inevitable. A midfield 3 supported by fullbacks that press high up the pitch. I have serious doubts about Ozil’s ability to play in a midfield 3 unless the two partners are absolute studs that can hold the middle in the face of modern tactics which is to overload the midfield i.e. 3-5-2, 4-2-3-1, etc. and we don’t have those guys.

31. To suggest that I am blaming Ramsey or Wilshere or Diaby for struggling with injuries is totally ridiculous. Being a professional athlete in any sport is physically stressful and that is unavoidable. The majority of athletes in all sports live on non steroidal anti inflammatories. Some humans are just not built to handle that physical stress and they get injured a lot more frequently and its not the players fault nor is there is nothing any club can do to change a players protoplasm. It is what it is. My point in the discussion is club’s have to deal with injury prone players differently when it comes to squad building decisions and handing out long term high dollar contract especially a team like ours which does not have a lot of extra money to throw away.

32. I love Ramsey as a player and Arsenal did a poor job of handling his contract situation, however, it would have been doubling down on mistakes to give him a big money long term contract when we already have a number of underperforming overpaid players in the squad and the wage bill needed to be trimmed. I may be wrong but I suspect 3-4 years from now Juve will be disappointed that Ramsey did not live up to their expectations. We always hope that a player who consistently struggles with injuries will somehow change but that is not what usually happens. Just like with Jack Wilshere we should have sold Aaron when he was still worth a lot of money rather then let their contracts run down.

33. I agree with Dr. Gooner. I am not blaming Ozil for hitting the downside of his career arc. It happens to every player and in some it happens sooner then others. The point I am trying to make is the faulty logic of blaming Emery and suggesting that Ozil is still as good as he used to be and its only Emery holding him back. I accept that Emery’s system did Ozil no favors but a manager can’t build his system around 1 player unless that player is clearly someone who can dominate games and that is not the case anymore. A great player should be able to adapt and find a way to have positive influence no matter what system he is forced to play with.

    All of us have watched the games and a few years ago when Ozil had the ball at his feet you always thought he could make something really good happen at any moment but that has clearly changed. Its hard for me to imagine that anyone would disagree with subjective idea that his ability to positively influence the game was fading before Emery arrived and it was fading for Germany. The rapidly declining goal and assist numbers for both club and country just support the subjective observation.

    1. The season before Emery came, Ozil was the 3rd most creative player in European football. You way overstate the downward arc, which you put at 3 years, and which is objectively not true.

       The problem with arguments like these is that nuance can get lost. No one said that the only thing holding Ozil back is Emery. I for one acknowledged that the player has some shortcomings, and said he would not have managed the goal getting ball recovery that Ceballos did against Burnley. In real time, in matches, I’ve called for him to be subbed (and the food gent you cite would unfailingly defend those shortcomings).

       I’ve said many times that I can understand if and why he’s not a First XI go to for Emery, but questioned, during his exile and the worst of the Emery fallout, why he wasnt even making the matchday squad of 18, and he was letting the world know that he was fully fit and ready. You can try, if you like, to argue that a fully fit Ozil isnt one of our best 18 players and didnt give us options. His return to the side made us more cohesive attacking wise.

       It isnt any one thing. Ozil isnt free of blame, the coach isn’t free of blame, but you exaggerate his decline to totally absolve the coach of any.

       To Ramsey, I’ll ask you what I asked Tom… since you say Juventus are paying too much salary, what do you consider a fair return for his services? Bearing in mind of course that some of his wages is the transfer fee that Juventua is saving.

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