Arsenal going to Anfield

by imothyt

5-1
4-0
3-1
3-3
2-2
5-1
0-2
1-2

Away trips to Anfield haven’t been fun for Arsenal. Not since I quit going to England to see the Arsenal. That 2-1 win by Arsenal was all the way back in March 2012, the 2-0 win September 2012.

Obviously I’ve had nothing to do with these scorelines. Though, I was there the day that van Persie scored in the 90th minute, that Luis Suarez dived to win a pen, that Szczesny made a double save off Kuyt, that Henderson gave Arteta a concussion, and that no one broke into our van and stole anything. It was as I referred to it at the time a “day of miracles.”

We also won that September, with goals off Podolski and Cazorla. That feels like a lifetime ago. The midfield was Diaby, Arteta, Cazorla, and Ox. Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Gibbs, and Jenkinson were the back line. Mannone was the keeper. And Giroud and Podolski started up top. That was the famous van Persie snake summer when Wenger had to totally retool the team, bringing in Giroud, Podolski, Mertesacker, and Cazorla. What a weird trip it’s been with Arsenal.

Since then.. well..we’ve conceded 22 and scored 8. And the last three matches at Anfield have been progressively worse: 3-1, 4-0, 5-1. We are reminded of this fact in every article, including this one.

But you know, I don’t have a strong emotion one way or the other. Maybe I haven’t gotten hyped up yet for the game but I’m not worried about this match nor hyped that we will win.

I know all of the narratives: that they look suspect at the back and that Luiz’ long passes will help break the high press, that we are terrible at Anfield, their front line is amazing, our front line is amazing. Etc. But I don’t know.

Actually, you know what? Fuck it. I’m just going to watch this one. Is that weird? Let’s talk about the narrative after.

Also, one more promise: no matter what happens, this is the third match of the season, I won’t be freaking out positive or negative.

Qq

62 comments

  1. I think he’ll play a back three unfortunately. We don’t have a LB to handle Salah and even AMN is a shaky option to cover Mane. He’s going to pray that Kolasinac and AMN bombing forward will preoccupy Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Ozil will be deemed still shy of fitness (b.s.) and Guendouzi will probably make way for Torreira to shore up the defense in midfield.

    Monreal/Luiz/Sokratis
    Kolasinac/Xhaka/Ceballos/Torriera/AMN
    Lacazette/Auba

    I think it could be ugly, but say Pool 2-1.

    1. Your left is right sided, and right left sided. Not hugely important. I’m just ar that way.

      Anyway, dont think we’ll go back 3. Unai said he’d generally play with 4 this season, and the evidence of the first two games is that he’s not going to go for stifling conservatism. So Xhaka and Torreira for Willock and Guendouzi — tough on both, but he will want experience on the middle of the park. Fun fact… Xhaka actually played well against Liverpool in the home draw last year, a game in which Torreira was outstanding. Dont expect him to boss Fabinho this time though. The Brazilian was slow out the blocks, but has improved tremendously for Liverpool.

      Liverpool are a great team, but to me we play them as if we fear them. Most of the goals in the away rout were down to stone cold panic, with Mr Mustafi playing a starring role. We should go on the front foot, and not show an inferiority complex. They dont have Allison, and that’s a big miss for them. They do have two of the best full backs in England… Robertson and Alexander-Arnold, and our full backs will have to be really switched on defensively.

      Two things I’ll be looking out for. The battle between VVD and our strikers… he’s the best central defender in the world right now. The other is Ox, who’s back to fitness, and could be involved even if he doesn’t start.

      Bit of a Brazilian reunion between Luiz, Firminho, Fabinho and Martinelli. But as I said, no Allison.

  2. Same thoughts here …

    All I hope from Arsenal, is that we don’t get hammered. Make a game of it, show signs of improvement. I predict 3 -1 to Liverpool.

    3rd game of the season. I’m at ease.

  4. really dont think he will revert to 5 at the back.
    Leno
    AMN – Sokratis – Luiz — Monreal
    Willock- Matteo
    Cebballos
    Pepe – Auba — Nelson

    1. No way. Can’t start Willock in a game like this!? Its got to be Torreira and Guendouzi with Ceballos.

      1. I feel Willock will do really well from the start. He’s physically strong and mentally tuned into defending.

      2. Yes, and Emery loves Xhaka. If he’s healthy, he plays. Willock is not seeing the field on Saturday.

  5. I had a dream last night — and this is strange because I never dream about football matches — that we won 1-0 and Leno saved a penalty in the dying minutes.

    That’s unlikely, but I’d like to add a bit of optimism here, not necessarily predicting that we’ll pick up three points, but that our performance will be a better one this year. I think we’ll see a much closer game, and with a bit of luck we could pick up a highly respectable point there.

    Why? Well, I think we have a better squad this season, but also, that 5-1 battering should be put in the context of the personnel on the day and surprisingly bad form.

    For example (and I base the comments on having just re-read the match reports and player ratings from that day), here was our starting line-up last December:

    GK: Leno (didn’t really have much chance on the goals, and two were penalties)

    CB: Lichtsteiner (enough said)
    CB: Sokratis (his first game back from injury, gave away a penalty)
    CB: Mustafi (this performance was the last straw for the few that had any patience left for him)

    LWB: Kolasinac (gave away a penalty, was bad throughout)
    RWB: Maitland-Niles (scored our only goal, was ok)

    MF: Torreira (after a series of really tidy days, he was uncharacteristically sloppy on the day, and actually, now that I think about it, he was clearly gassed; never regained his early-season form after this game)
    MF: Xhaka (average, but he also had a lot of average around him)

    AM: Ramsey (a rare start for him; he was ok)
    AM: Iwobi (he was ok, assisted for Maitland-Niles for the goal, but characteristic Iwobi: lots and lots of effort, but not so much else)

    ST: Aubemeyang (had a total stinker; I read in one report that he had 10 touches for the entire game, and — the joke was (was it a joke? I couldn’t tell) — 6 of them were from kick-off!)

    SUBS: Koscielny (just coming back from injury; half-time sub), Lacazette (played well when he came on at ’71), Guendouzi (not much of note, came on at ’80).

    You can see already that we’re facing Liverpool on Saturday in much better shape than this. We have better defenders available, Sokratis looks comfortable, and his partnership with Luiz was promising against Burnley. AMN looked great in pre-season (apart from the own goal!) and in our first two games (I’d say he’s improved on last year), and Guendouzi similar. Torreira is actually fit now. Aubameyang is in great shape and form. Plus we have added quality in Ceballos and Pepe.

    All that to say, Liverpool will be facing a very, very different team. Will it be enough for us to win? Doubtful. It’s Liverpool and it’s Anfield. But could we get a draw? Why not? I predicted 3-1 earlier, but provided we don’t give up stupid penalties like we did last year, I’m going to revise it: 2-2.

    1. Oh, and Monreal, Holding, and Bellerin were all injured at that point in our season, hence Emery’s selection headache at the back. Mkhitaryan and Ozil also unavailable through injury that day. Sokratis just back from injury (like I said), and I think Lacazette was also just returning from injury, so started on the bench.

      1. (might be wrong about Lacazette returning from injury, because of course the bench thing was likely tactical…my memory is fuzzy, but I seem to remember him being injured last December?)

      2. Yes Bun – love the optimism. I think we lose but show a lot of progress. Emery’s team selection will say a lot about him as a coach. If he reverts to back 3 this is who he is. Risk averse and trying to minimize damage. If he goes back 4, and picks some of the young guys, he is showing an aggressive side we never saw much last year. I would rather lose big trying to play attacking football than be drfensive and hoping to eke out a draw. I think we lose 3-2 but put up a good fight going toe to toe in a 4-3-3. Why… Why not? It’s early in the season!

  6. “Also, one more promise: no matter what happens, this is the third match of the season, I won’t be freaking out positive or negative.”

    I’ve tried to find someone to take this bet, but not even in New Jersey.

    1. If we get hammered in the next two games people will say that Emery has to go.

      If we get 2-3 points from the next two games no change (arguments all around).

      If we get 6 points from the next two games people will say Emery for life.

      I feel like it’s all kind of irrelevant. There will be 56 (or so) footballs games to play after these next two for the rest of the year. Plus Kroenke is clearly now a huge fan.

      1. If we get six points off Liverpool and Tottenham, I will create a statue of Emery in the hopes it comes to life so I can marry him.

        In all seriousness, it would be lay a tremendous and wholly unexpected marker for the season, the key words being “wholly unexpected.” We need to manage our expectations as this team gets used to each other, and while we wait for Tierney and Bellerin to return. With regards to Tierney, I’m NOT managing my expectations. Having never watched Celtic play a game of football, I’m just wildly excited about him! Down with logic!

        1. 12 points from the first 4 games, against Liverpool and Spurs, that would be a pretty dreamy start.

          Still I wouldn’t want to call it a title push yet. Though I would probably be the only one reluctant to do so.

          1. Ah, but it is bridled, Greg. Note the hedging in my comments and Tim’s. I mean, if you believe Tim and I are two different people.

      2. I agree with all of that. Which is why I also wasn’t too worried in June. It’s a very long game.

  7. We have to handle those fast “machine gun” starts that Liverpool tend to have at Anfield. If we get panicked into errors, they’ll be 3 nil up in the first 25 minutes. Hoping we’re tuned into that …

    1. Oh they will come after us. If they don’t I will build a statue to Bunburyist in hopes that he will marry me.

  9. I can’t wait to see how we set up and how we play at Anfield. I have enjoyed our games against Liverpool for the past 10 years in terms of performances, but those good performances are grossly undermined by some really terrible games in the last few years. We have been a match for Liverpool for many years, and sometimes in a single season, we have matched them in one game and then got dismantled in the other.

    I didn’t even see anything that Emery did wrong in last season’s 5-1 loss, which is wierd for such a huge loss, but how we set out to play and the missing players on the day, Emery was let down by the players on that day. Horrible mistakes and a meltdown after Liverpool applied some pressure on the side, while forgetting the routes we used to penetrate their defence and bypassing their high energy midfield.

    We are a good side, and Emery isn’t a horrible coach who can’t provide results. I have seen his PSG side in some games, just out play and rip apart the opposition. I just don’t think he is able to elicit those performances from his sides when he wants, just like Wenger before him. But when his sides hit their stride, Arsenal could pull off an amazing result. During pre-season, I saw some impressive signs from our side against some top sides and Liverpool are honestly not really as impressive as they are being made out to be, and reached their cieling last season.

    I am seeing a positive result, Auba scoring an amazing goal to show that he is among the best players in world football right now and if he sets us up how we set up against Barca in pre-season, we could have a very good chance at beating them.

    Oh… and if he plays, Ceballos could get Henderson sent off, but I’m sure the refree will let them kick him.

      1. Besides which, Liverpool would be the very last holiday destination on earth, unless you really love the Beatles. Give me Led Zep any day!

    1. Liverpool are most powerful in the first 15-25 minutes of games, and then the last five minutes of the first half. Its almost drummed into them by Klopp,. In short, they prefer to win games in the first half if they can.

      We have to limit them somehow. I suggest long channel balls into Pépé and Auba, so their fullbacks have to keep turning around. We have to go toe to toe with them in Midfield as well. Celallos’ ball-carrying abilities are crucial to drawing fouls and stifling that momentum they try to build.

      Tough game.

      1. Just an interesting note here:

        Last season Liverpool scored 9 goals in the first 15 minutes of games, Arsenal 12.
        Liverpool lead the league in goals between 15-30 minutes with 18, but Arsenal were still respectable with 11. (Totals first 30: Liverpool 27, Arsenal 23)
        Liverpool scored 11 more between 30-45 minutes, Arsenal just 5.
        between 45-60 Liverpool 12, Arsenal 15
        between 60-75 Liverpool 14, Arsenal 11
        between 75-90 Liverpool 25 (led the League), Arsenal 19 (2nd in the League)

        So, actually, I’m worried about them early but most worried about them at either end of the half where they use their superior conditioning to eviscerate unfit teams.

    1. My last match in England was the win over Everton in the FA Cup, 2014. My last Arsenal match was that summer, 2014 NYRB.

      I can’t justify flying to Europe just to watch football and it would cost about $5,000 to take my daughter with me. That’s money I don’t have.

      1. Especially when it started feeling like a waste of 2 hours just to watch most of our games last season. It is going to take some serious change in style of play and change in ambition for overseas fans to invest their time and money to be a part of Arsenal’s journey.

        I felt very much willing right after we signed Ozil, and the level of change he brought, we suddenly went from a side that didn’t look like breaking our trophy drought, to beating Liverpool, Spurs and Everton convincingly to march to the final. Sanchez kinda did the same, had a really big impact and then we didnt follow any of that up until we got Lacazette, and by then, it was too late for Wenger and for Arsenal as well. We had fallen behind and couldn’t even fix our issues with all the short term fixes Arsene tried.

        The kind of impact that Ozil and Sanchez brought though, from what we were and what we became with the impact those two brought, we broke so many jinxed and played some wonderful football. An impact like that is still to be seen, and I am hoping our new signings, especially Pepe, can give us that sort of jump.

        It’s all that I think myself and probably Tim have been so disappointed in this side and especially Emery for. There aren’t any signs of Arsenal making the jump to become a club worth investing time and money into seeing, a club worth believing in, or a side capable of playing in a way of capturing your imagination. We can barely entertain, no longer a neutral’s must watch or even an Arsenal fan’s priority. At least challenging for silverware could provide some emotional investment to overcome the lack of inspiration on the pitch.

        Maybe I see things a little differently, but as an overseas fan, I felt like our identity and the values that Arsenal upheld for so long was in the way we played. It’s what attracted me, kept me vested and defined my view on football for all these years. Not just the style of play, but the ambition on the pitch, the way of carrying oneself and the ambition to become the protagonist, the responsibility to the fan who has to spend $5000 just to bring their daughter with them. Even if I had the money right now, I don’t think it would be worth it for me to spend it on this team.

      2. Yes, this is what I feel these days too…£350 for a £50 ticket…what was I thinking

  13. Liverpool are probably overrated right now. But not by much.

    We were functional at best in midfield all last season, but if we outplay them in the middle of the park – and we now have a midfield trio who might be able to do that – we could provide some surprises. We could give Henderson and Wijnaldum in particular a torrid time.

    I would love to see Emery pick the same team as Burnley except with Pepe starting ahead of Nelson. This is going to be high-energy, high-tempo, I don’t want to see Xhaka anywhere near this game.

    I can’t really do predictions because my Bayesian Complicators are always switched on – but this should be closer than last year, my head says there will be goals and Liverpool will score more of them, on the other hand my gut says it’s going to be tight.

    The game, that is, not my gut. My gut is always loose as a goose, which may be too much information for a public forum.

    1. Sound read. Forgot Pepe in my earlier comment higher up. Yes, Pepe for Nelson.

      And I’m kind of with you in keeping the same midfield, but if Torreira is fully fit he should play. My prediction on Xhaka and Torreira coming in is based on what I think Unai will do, not what I prefer. I absolutely loved the energy and bite of Willock and Guendouzi. It’s a nice problem to have….

  15. At least last season under Emery we did better (in general) against the top sides than we did under late Wenger; with better players available this year I think we’ll at least be competitive on Saturday, and may well pull off a surprise. As good as they are, Liverpool can be inconsistent, I’m hoping Torreira and Ceballos disrupt their rhythm… And I think Willock would be a good option both going forward and tracking back, based on what he’s already shown this season.

    I’m looking forward to the game, it will be a good test of our credentials. Of course, I’d feel even better if Bellerin were fit.

  16. As much as I’d like to be wrong I can’t see us getting anything from this game other than some more useful minutes for Ceballos and Pepe.
    Too many mistake prone players still in this Arsenal side in comparison with Liverpool’s.
    Adrian is a downgrade from Alison and could be caught out but on our side there’s at least a few more potential game changers in a negative way.
    AMN is just as able to play a blinder as he is to give away a dumb pen.
    Xhaka, if he plays, even more so.
    The main thing though, I feel, Arsenal are still a bit mentally fragile and a soft touch.
    The sight of Xhaka helping opposition players off the ground after a challenge(not necessarily his), or even Sokratis hugging Chris Wood after a physical tussle while himself being totally ignored by the Burnley striker is cringeworthy.

    The best outcome – we keep the score line respectable so we don’t have to spend the entire time before the Spurs game talking about mental recovery.

  17. i’m not optimistic that arsenal can pull off a convincing win and the reason why is unai emery.

    last week, in the 70th minute, with arsenal up a goal and playing very well, emery went to a back 3. what i did like is, unlike last season, he went to a 3-5-2 instead of that dreadful 3-4-3. what i did not like is that his change killed the momentum the team had. footballers, especially when they’er playing so well, would prefer to kill off a game, not defend a 1-goal lead. under arsene wenger, arsenal would have won the burnley game 4-1.

    liverpool may not be the most talented club in the world but they’re very well coached and implement a very sound strategy. in fact, as a coach, i do many of the same things klopp does; it could be that i picked up a few things during his time at dortmund. in a nutshell, they’ve reverse-engineered the principles of attack and built a defense on that. they take away your penetration by compressing the field with their high line. they deny you width because their strikers channel everything to the center of the park or they pin you on one half of the field. they take away depth because the field is so short; the distance from the backline to the center forward is typically about 20 yards, which is the reason their press is so effective (center mids don’t have to cover a lot of ground). the only way to attack them is to go through that midfield gauntlet or go over the top. they’er well rehearsed on defending those approaches as well. i love klopp.

    arsenal shouldn’t be super-defensive at liverpool but it’s emery’s m-o. what can we do? unlike most, i’d like to see nelson get the nod if pepe’s not 100% fit; great option off the bench. likewise, i don’t want torreira on the pitch. he got absolutely smacked around by the liverpool midfield in the 5-1 game. i’m a bit worried about the youth of arsenal’s exciting midfield. they need an old head on the pitch and it should be xhaka, but he’s not really that guy. maybe calum chambers at cdm? we’ll see.

    1. i’m not optimistic that arsenal can pull off a convincing win and the reason why is unai emery

      ===

      Really? So Emery is responsible for Liverpool’s insanely talented and athletic squad that won the Champions League and almost the league last season?

      You’re giving him an awful lot of credit!

      It won’t be a 5-1 drubbing this time around. That’s what I’m predicting. But the reason most people are NOT predicting a win is largely down to Liverpool’s quality, especially given they’re at home. Why you’d lay dropped points at Emery’s feet rather than the enormity of our task is strange.

      1. my point is emery is very conservative and even if arsenal were getting at them, i think he would restrict the team’s attack. sure, liverpool are good but arsenal have enough quality to trouble them on any given match day.

        but you know, you might have just changed my mind. emery is a cup manager specialist, ala rafa benitez. he might win a one-off against liverpool.

  18. Spirited thread.
    I’m an optimist– and this has me amped-up even more.
    With LAGunner upthread with ‘AttackAttackAttack’ and to go toe2toe.
    If Arsenal do so– I won’t be disappointed with the result, regardless.

    Liverpool started out as an unstoppable force 3 seasons back– sometimes losing by giving up more than they got. Very much OK with Arsenal emulating that ideal.

    Then work toward the defending part as soon as we can.

  19. Exactly JW1! Guen Ceballos and Willock- let’s give them a chance to show what they’ve got. The young lads don’t learn if they don’t play in tough games. I remember last year seeing how much Pool overpowered us with athleticism at Anfield. I think we will be markedly better in that respect with the young guns in midfield.

  20. game on in just over an hour, looking about to see who’s excited…..
    just me then.
    Got a good chance today dippers not hit peak form yet, I hope the boys go in with more confidence than the fans have in them.

  21. Yes to… Pepe, Willock, Xhaka, Guendouzi 👀

    No to… Laca, Torreira

    Ozil not even on the bench

  22. haha palace score winner at old trafford in fergie time..
    de gea howler and they missed this weeks penalty..

  23. United lose at Old Trafford in stoppage time, with Rashford missing a penalty. This is good. It’s stuff like this which, regardless of today’s result at Anfield, make me hopeful that we can make the top four this season.

    Anyway, let’s see how things go for us today. My main hope is that we turn up and play well.

  24. Oh, I also quite enjoyed watching Leeds beat Stoke today. Comprehensively. Eddie came on as a sub and showed some great touches and should have had an assist but for a great save by Federici. But really, the best part of the game was the sight of Stoke fans sitting miserably in their mostly empty stadium. All you could hear the entire game were the away supporters singing abuse. Lovely.

    Was going to watch a bit of Juventus, but Ramsey not even fit for their bench today!

  25. HT: Well, at this point last year at Anfield, we walked off the pitch three goals down.

    PROGRESS!

    1. Not too sure about the progress part with Salah once again embarrassing us. If only Pepe took his chance and showed some clinical instinct like the Egyptian when cleaned through on goal, or if Aubameyang’s chip sneaked in to the far post. Then again, we probably didnt look like we could gain any points at Anfield. At three nil down, we didn’t show much fight or urgency.

      Not sure if the youthful team selection in addition to the presence of our Swiss captain played a part in our defeat, but we were rather poor and couldn’t contain the relentless waves of pool attack nor trouble the colossal Virgil at the other end.

      Poor game to be honest.

      1. Sorry, “PROGRESS!” was definitely tongue in cheek. But I am relieved that the scoreline wasn’t humiliating.

    1. Lol… Lots of time to ship 3 more. But I am with you, fingers crossed we survive.

  28. Expected nothing from this game, but this is just a perfect illustration of the gulf in quality between the sides. Liverpool looking exactly like the 97-point side that they are.

  29. Urgh! That’s all I can say.
    Brilliant idea to give their FB the space and time, for them to gain confidence and smell blood. We have talent to compete but we are playing with our tail between the legs.
    The mental effect from this game will longer a few more games.

  30. the mousers full backs made the difference today with the width and quality they have.
    lets return the favour at the ems when we have tierney and bellerin fit..
    and holding instead of shirt holder.

    1. Luiz cost us one of those goals, and maybe even two. Not saying he’s the only reason we lost, but, you know, 2-1 looks better than 3-1 (which was the right prediction on my part a couple of days ago before I got all 2-2 on it).

  31. Apparently our CB’s didn’t get the memo VAR was introduced this season.
    Both Sokratis and Luiz shirt grabs a capital offense against footballing intelligence.

  32. Liverpool are the champions of Europe, folks. And a significantly better team than we are.

    Im not sure that anything we planned would have changed the outcome. That said, I said at the top of this thread that I wanted us to attack them. That means I’d rather have Laca on the pitch. All things considered (Pepe new, Liverpool strong, Laca statistically more inclined the score than Pepe), Laca would hurt them more than Pepe. Plus, he’s hardworking.

    Didnt see the game… today was a good day to be genuinely busy, I said to myself at the start. And so it proved 🙂

    Tom, youre way too harsh on our defenders for shirt tugging. Everyone does it. VAR is not going to cure defenders of the instinct. We can only hope that the refs are consistent in enforcing punishment of it.

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