I need to spend more time thinking about this but I’m curious about responsibility at a football club. In other words, who is the reason why your club isn’t meeting expectations?
I don’t have an answer. The component parts are pretty simple to define: players, managers, coaches, upper management, scouts, and owners. And we know that when all of them are clicking, you get a title challenger. Look at Liverpool, everything about that club seems to be humming along in harmony. Even if they don’t win a trophy this year, they have a title-challenging structure in place.
Now look at Arsenal. Do they really have a title-challenging structure in place? This isn’t just about spending money: Leicester won the League without huge spend because they had a club with a unified purpose (and also got lucky); Man U have spent gigantic sums of money and don’t look like they will even crack the top four for the next decade. It’s about having a unified purpose of winning the League.
If the purpose of the club is to just make money, then that’s what the club will do. If the purpose of the club is winning (with maybe a secondary purpose of making money) they at least have that as the focus. Taking a club with a primary mission of making money and expecting them to win trophies is like planting a field of beans and expecting to grow violets.
Amid that backdrop I wonder how long the legacy of the former manager should rule? Many folks like to blame Wenger – and some people even still blame Fergie – for Arsenal – and United’s – current malaise. And it’s true that when Arsene Wenger left, he passed on his worst ever defensive team and maybe even an argument could be made that he passed on a “bottler” mentality.
But he also passed on an enormously profitable football club, one of the richest in world football, with the largest cash reserves in football. And he passed on an incredibly talented attack – one which is well on its way to it’s eighth season (of the last ten) of scoring more than 70 goals. And for a bunch of bottlers it’s also true that Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal is a club that won the FA Cup three times in the last five seasons.
Arsenal haven’t had what I would consider a great season, yet. They could still win the Europa League – and Emery’s record there plus his record against Sarri give me confidence – and in that case it would be a fantastic season for me. I absolutely place any European trophy above the FA Cup and even above finishing 2nd to 4th in the League.
But whenever Arsenal struggle it feels like fans are still assigning all of the blame to Arsene Wenger. Maybe some of the blame is still his. I can get behind that. He was the manager when StatsDNA bought Xhaka and Mustafi. But he was also the manager who bought Auba and Laca and Ozil and Ramsey and Koscielny and all of the players that you probably like about this Arsenal team except Torreira and Leno.
So, how much blame should Arsene Wenger shoulder? How much credit? And vice-versa for his replacement? And more importantly, how much of this Arsenal team’s struggles are down to the ownership and his management team – who have very successfully hidden behind the coattails of the last two managers while playing a huge role as drivers of this club?
If I were to assign responsibility, it would probably be something like 15% Wenger, 15% Emery, 70% Kroenke and his management team. And after this year, I honestly don’t want to hear anyone blaming Wenger for anything ever again. Because until that 70% figures out that that the purpose of a football club is to win things (and that winning things makes money) and sets the entire club’s focus on winning (instead of just making money) then it seems to me that Arsenal’s field is going to continue to grow beans.
I’d be curious to know when the transition of transfer decision responsibility from Wenger to Gazidis’ committee took place. Probably before Aubameyang? Possibly before Mustafi?
That season that Wenger only bought Cech. I think they said no more after that. I actually think that Elneny was the first StatsDNA purchase that January. He has StatsDNA.
Going back through some articles, it looks like Gazidis first started taking control back in 2015. StatsDNA recommended Gabriel. Though in that same article they also suggested we turn down de Bruyne and Griezmann.
That’s interesting. So, a large part of the alleged mess that Wenger bequeathed Emery could have been to do with the StatsDNA troika. If so, much respect to Wenger for keeping quiet about all this.
Not directly connected with the article (rather with the previous one), but I wanted to share a thought that I had today.
After the two losses I feel about Arsenal the way how you, Tim, reacted towards Mkhitaryan’s misses. Sure, reasonably irritated by the blown away chances, but still acknowledging the positioning skill to be at the right place at the right time to take those shots.
So we have to give (some) credit to the team, to Emery. For being here, for being in the fight. To have something to bottle.
Interesting thought.
Part of the difficulty in fixing responsibility is not just that there’s a structure above Emery, but also that the club went through a top-level restructure twice since the last few years of Wenger, which still remains incomplete.
Which is why Wenger remains a convenient target. Because he took personal responsibility for everything, whereas right now we have no one fronting up.
Ironically, the second restructure, though disruptive, might have earned Emery more time. Firstly, it’s put the guy who bagged him the job who took over. This can only be good for him.
Second and more importantly, without the excuse of that disruption, there is no way Emery comes out the other end relatively unscathed after he went back on basically all he said he planned to do. From making Ozil and Ramsey captain and then benching them, to a lack of pressing, conservative outlook, and not promoting youth players.
Personally, I think Wenger left the club not just with healthy finances and a good, if disbalanced squad (Sven’s work mid season actually), but also with the structure in place to build on it. Which, if we’re honest, we did.
70m spent, bringing in an experienced CB, a DM, a young talented CM, and a good GK. You pointed at Licht, but that was a function of the budget more than the failure of overestimating his quality. I’d say Sven did a very good job in the two windows he had.
Whatever prompted Gazidis to leave (I called him a coward for it), our search for a successor has been pathetic. Why was there no existing shortlist? We ultimately appointed Raul who alienated our GM, has still not found a replacement, and now there is no one looking after the strategic vision and style of football. That was not Emery’s mandate after all.
Responsibility – 70% Raul, 30% Emery, 100% Kroenke.
Blaming Wenger or Gazidis is a cop out at this point.
Ha, ha, you know me, let me inject some objectivity.
Klopp, fantastic manager, in 4th season: previous season finishes: 8th 4th 4th
Liverpool last trophy 2012 League Cup
Leicester won title yes..and since then?
Plus teams played,x10 harder agsinst us and Totts than leicester. If you dont believe me please watch Hazard’s perfermance against Totts/Us 15/16 and Leicester 15/16 and compare and contrast.
Why do we have to blame anyone..? People just seem to like/want to blame blame, blame.. I think we just need to relax, be patient and enjoy..speaking of which, no one is talking about Ozil’s ridiculous goal against Crystal Palace..he does that thing, unique in history of football, where he kicks the ball into the floor and it shoots over the keeper. Audacious skill – the angles…the angles.. I know the media line is that he a liability and must be sold..but I thought I’d make this point now because when his contract is up for renewal again, he will inexpicably become Arsenal’s MVP again and his loss the end of the world for Arsenal. Just like Ramsey (yes oustanding player/lad), now he is leaving, is mysteriously, the only thing keeping us from mid-table. Mmm OK.
PS 1. Wenger thank you so much for Xhaka..
PS 2 Ireally do like your writing style..content a bit negative though..
Yeah..well.. You know that’s just like..uh…your opinion, man.
“objectivity”
I hate to be a d!ck, but God, your comments are the worst, mate.
Haha..sorry. .mate …but just think first season Unai doing fine . No need to panic. Football is to be enjoyed .
Could you please stop telling everyone how to enjoy or watch Arsenal and qualify our feelings? Nothing you say is in any way objective, it’s just another opinion, so stop acting like you know better.
Ok mate, fair enough..sorry about that. Never my intention to give impression that I know better..or some how more in the know..
KSE’s takeover and ownership of my great sporting addiction, The Arsenal, has me more worried than ever before.
The first sentence of the third paragraph of the blog is what I have convinced myself is the motivation behind KSE. We will be be just good enough to make money until we aren’t and then who knows?
I am not optimistic about the summer transfer unless we more or less blow up the team and use whatever money that brings us to make the best player acquisitions we have ever made. Yeah, I know.
See Colorado Rapids. No need to win. Just increase value of real estate assets in the are.
How come no one has mentioned Steve Bould? It seems to me that the defending started getting worse when Pat Rice left, and Steve Bould took over as assistant coach. I wonder how much say he actually has. And if he doesn’t have any say, why are the club paying him 30 grand a week or whatever it is.
He looks better in shorts than Wenger ever did.
Look, I’ve wondered for years wtf Bould does at the club. If we do start cleaning house in a couple of months he’d be a good one to get off the books.
And what happened to the American physio who was signed with some fanfare a couple of years ago? Welbeck, Bellerin and Holding didn’t benefit. No I’m not saying these injuries was his fault of course but it’s just my general frustration with club. Arrgh…
I first read that as American psycho.
Completely agree. I’m so sick of some people’s (the entire le grove community, basically) obsession with blaming Wenger, still, a year after he’s gone. It’s tiresome and toxic.
So glad we’re talking about this. In spite of Emery holding position so far this season I’m clear in my head I want him gone. I am deeply worried about the management team, despair at our ability to get in a quality DOF, (Edu? No thanks) and am seriously worried about the owners strategy/ focus. As for the team, as someone has already pointed out, with Ramsey going this summer, and Özil sometime soon after we will be mediocre personified. I hate the way we are playing already and they are both still here. For me it’s not too early to say we’re made wrong-headed decisions last summer that take us on a path very different to where I want to go. I anticipate years of heartbreak and fudge and the absence of any personnel at the club with Arsenal in their hearts and souls.
Tim, I read your blog without fail every day. Top quality opinion writing that is thought provoking. Thank you. Keep on keeping on!
The reality is we can only rebuild in phases. Some comment made about Le-grove was inaccurate, though WOB’s are prominent on Le-grove, they sustained criticism in a period when it was evident we were stagnant.
Clearing the deadwood was also a prominent theme on Le-grove, and though we have sold Walcott and let many players go, it is evident that some more players need to leave for a change in fortunes.
The reality is we do not have a functional team, we lack players who can fit the bill as protagonists, either in tenacity or skillwise. The best we can do is structure ourselves in a formation where we rely on 2 strikers to score goals without all round cohesion of the team. Depending on wingbacks to craft goal scoring challenges is good, but in reality, we are limited in style, scope and expression.
Honestly, I’ve spent most of the season wondering how Wenger would have done with the same additions. May not be popular, but I can’t help thinking better than we’ve achieved. And that despite being convinced Wenger lost the room 2 years ago.
15% – Wenger for mismanagement
15%- Wenger for overstaying
70 % – Kroenke for allowing that to happen
0% – Emery.
Can’t blame Emery for any of it because he simply might not have what it takes to turn this club around and no track record of having done it before.
I would apply the same logic to an Arteta hire and many others as well.
For all who say Wenger can’t be blamed anymore, let’s see what Arsenal can fetch for some of the players deemed not good enough we paid a fortune for with Wenger’s blessing.
You could attach blame to Wenger. I just think that’s a separate discussion. He was let go for his failures.
He left a decent squad, which Emery hasn’t quite utilised to the fullest. Which, as I said, is ok. Maybe it’s not the type of players he wanted. It was never his job to set the strategic direction of the team. Rather to implement it. That direction was set under Sven, and then demolished. Including by getting rid of Ramsey and the benching of Ozil. How much of that is on Emery is an unknown.
But he’s not been great with his plans in each match either. It’s weird to say it’s 0% on the coach in charge of training, setting tactics, and picking the team. Regardless of what he inherited.
You could attach blame to Wenger. I just think that’s a separate discussion. He was let go for his failures.
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And so will Emery in one year time if my suspicions are correct, and then will be the right time to apportion blame to him accordingly.
“Decent” squad is such a vague term too.
I could go up and down this league ( outside of top six) and name players who could walk into this squad easy ,and many are on clubs in the bottom half the tables.
You wanna get a good feel for how decent Arsenal squad really is, you don’t ask the likes of FAITH , or even you( no disrespect), but rather folks who have no dog in this fight.
Look at transfermarkt valuations for example.
Why are transfermarkt valuations the criteria for judging the squad? Are you saying we don’t have a squad worthy of top 4? Let’s say Wenger is 100% to blame. Where does that get us analysing this season?
In case you missed it, I’m defending Emery against the squad’s failures too, including, to an extent, the decision to bench Ozil and Ramsey.
You say you have no dog in this fight. I say I don’t either, because I really don’t believe any genuine review of this season has scope to put it on Wenger’s shoulders. He played scapegoat enough while he was here. He left behind a squad worthy of top 4, with two very good goalscorers, and a staff which had presented a plan and vision for Arsenal. That it was destroyed a few months hence is not on him.
That Emery chooses to play 3 defensive minded mids against some of the supposed minnows is also not on Wenger. Emery’s half time subs are not on Wenger. The lack of defensive improvement is not on Wenger. That’s all on Emery.
Emery will be here one more year and, despite me not being too happy with his vision, I think he deserves the type of players he wants to show what he can do.
Transfermarkt are a pretty reliable source of team and player valuations. Not perfect mind you but if I had to ask someone what they thought a player was worth it would be them and not someone within the club fan base.
I am saying we don’t have the squad worthy of top four and I have put money where my mouth is and as of this moment it’s worth about $650 if things stay the same.
Wenger isn’t 100% to blame , not even close so why the hyperbole?
The season isn’t over so the verdict on Emery isn’t in.
You seem to think Wenger’s last season was an outlier and had he stayed he would’ve done better this season.
I disagree.
The league hasn’t stood still and just because Arsenal brought in some new promising players , so have many other clubs.
Did you expect the wolves to do what they have done before the season’s start? Exactly. No one did.
There’s a reason Chelsea, United , Spurs and Arsenal are dropping points to everyone at this stage and it might have less to do with choking and more with everyone also raising their level.
I thought Arseblog’s post today provided a balanced perspective with regard to the culpability angle.
But I’m probably even more sympathetic to Emery. He’s facing a massive rebuild with a squad of aging and deeply flawed players, and there’s not a DofF in sight to help him do it. I’m not even sure there’s the money to do it. What’s Mustafi worth, by the way? £5m?
Fifth is still in our hands!
Just read the Arseblog post – pretty sensible.
I think it’s too early for a season summary. Kinda like voting Ramsey the player of the season just in time for him to pick up his customary hamstring job to render him unavailable when needed most.
Or my pick , Leno, who stunk up the joint at Wolves.
Arsenal can still finish on a real high this season despite the recent lows.
no way do you blame wenger for what’s going on at arsenal now. he’s not the person responsible for managing the players at arsenal. likewise, granit xhaka and shkodran mustafi are not wenger-type signings, especially not at £35 million each. this is not wenger.
i mentioned in the previous thread how xhaka was so poor that wenger didn’t play him until he had to; he rather played santi cazorla, an attacking player, than play the swiss kid arsenal just paid £35 million for, specifically to play cdm. why? xhaka wasn’t ready to play cdm. that was plain to see even in the pre-season game against the mexican team, chivas. that kid looked lost that day and he still does. wenger played cazorla at cdm until cazorla couldn’t play anymore.
if you’re right tim, and xhaka is an actual statsDNA purchase, that proves that cdm qualities can’t be quantified by statistics. another correlation with the arrival of xhaka is the departure from the champions league. arsenal have, historically, been a very good away team. since the arrival of xhaka, they’ve been incredibly poor. that’s no coincidence. simply remove xhaka, and arsenal are, at worst, a champions league team again. ironically, xhaka just signed a contract extension last summer and ramsey’s extension was agreed but withdrawn. sounds an awful lot like someone is trying to prove the legitimacy of their statsDNA signing while finding a coach who would agree to try and turn lead into gold. go figure.
no way do you blame wenger for what’s going on at arsenal now. he’s not the person responsible for managing the players at arsenal. likewise, granit xhaka and shkodran mustafi are not wenger-type signings, especially not at £35 million each. this is not wenger.
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How about letting £60m plus walk out the door in shape of Sanchez
( could’ve been a lot more six months prior), that impacted last TW and the next most likely.
Or was that decision not sanctioned by Wenger either.
if you were wenger, what would you have done with alexis?
It is completely immaterial what I would’ve done with Alexis.
Wenger was in total control of the personnel decisions and he allowed the club’s biggest asset to run down his contract in HOPE he would stay.
If you can’t bring yourself to admit even now that that was a wrong decision, then I don’t know how to help you.
I don’t get “no way to blame Wenger.” I really don’t. The assumption that all the bad players were statsDNA purchases rather than Wenger purchases (as if he didn’t sign off on them or as if stats don’t always inform decisions or as if his track record in the last decade, even before the statsDNA narrative took hold, was somehow exemplary) is wishful thinking. This is a poor squad, and it’s been years in the making. And I don’t just mean personnel. I also mean culture. It’s going to take more than one season to fix.
Does Emery shoulder responsibility? Of course. But Wenger deserves none of it? That just sounds absurd. Is Emery a wizard who can magically transform a squad in nine months?
This debate reminds me of the when is the new President responsible for economy debate we in the States have to endure every time new administration takes reigns.
No one ever gets convinced to switch opinions on that one either.
Just to finish up my involvement on this:
Wenger left a Europe league level club
( yes, two seasons is a trend) that’s on CL club level wages, highly lacking in mental strength ( no matter Arsene’s protestations) and balance in key positions.
Emery was brought in and in his first season was tasked by management with reducing wage bill, putting lipstick on a Mustafi (and others) pig by putting them on display for potential suckers I mean buyers, while trying to win Arsenal first European trophy since dinosaurs roamed the earth, and do all that while not experimenting with line ups ( that one is from fans ) but rather by tweaking what worked
( not a lot) under Wenger.
A dream job if I ever saw one.
I wonder how long Klopp would’ve sat in on an interview like that before he bust out laughing and run for exits .
what gives you the audacity to declare that a group of professional footballers that you don’t know are mentally weak? you don’t know the mental strength of any of those players.
likewise, you don’t know what the board directed emery to do. i have no problem with you not knowing, as none of us do. i do have a problem with you talking like what you’re saying is all fact instead of conjecture.
I’ve got news for you , 90 % of what everyone states on here is conjecture unless it’s stats related.
But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that apart of handful of players this squad lacks a fighting spirit.
As for cutting the wage bill, also common sense.
You can’t have a £220m wage bill and compete in the Europa league, while your neighbors have been playing in the CL on almost half that.
That and there was that embarrassing memo to cut spending by all employees which you seem to ignore.
Yeah, so people still do want to blame Wenger I guess. Not surprised at all. If anyone has seen Arsenal play this season, they would have serious doubts about Emery. But hey, lets just still blame Arsene
That’s a lazy assumption. Do you get the sense here that most people blame Wenger alone? Please. Let’s have some perspective, including perspective on what people are actually saying.
In general, I’ll say that the blame game is unhelpful, and contributes to a lack of nuance when it comes to judging what Emery has done in nine months. NINE MONTHS.
I’m amazed at some of the comments here.
People are desperate to absolve a manager, nay,a CEO in all but name,who has
1) Grossly mis-managed contracts which has cost the club millions in transfer fees,leaving the new manager financially handcuffed.
2) Signed average and deeply flawed players to exorbitant and long term contracts who the new management is struggling to move on,further compromising who we could sign.
3) Let a culture of complacency develop and fester throughout the club (including the fans) for a decade,which the new manager is expected to address within a season.
4) Finally, left a sizeable group of fans so devoted to him that they would undercut a new manager at every turn to prove that sacking him was wrong,even though it was clear to any objective observer that he had overstayed his welcome by about 5 years.
there are a few people here undercutting emery but none of them are saying that wenger should still be here. sorry, wrong community.
The way I look at it, if you want to have a discussion on Wenger, that ends with last season. Whatever squad he left behind etc.
You judge Emery (and the Arsenal management from the board down) on what they’ve done with what was there. Have they done enough? Have they executed the vision they had promised or progressed towards it? If not, ok, maybe they need more time or money. But it’s still on them.
i’m not implying that wenger has never signed a bad player. my point was we’ve seen arsene sign lots of midfielders in his time at arsenal and xhaka doesn’t fit the mold for that money.
vieira, fabregas, petit, diaby, gilberto, hleb, arteta, rosicky, ozil, and cazorla are just a few of the wenger signings and are all wenger-types and only ozil cost anywhere near that kind of money arsenal paid for xhaka. my point £35 million for xhaka simply doesn’t seem like something wenger would do. £35 million is, to quote wenger, for “top-top quality” like ozil, sanchez, aubameyang, or luis suarez. xhaka is not top-top.
same for mustafi. £35 million? arsenal only paid half of that for sokratis. no other arsenal defender wenger signed even came close to the £35 million arsenal paid for mustafi.
Sorry but you seem to have bought into Wenger’s ‘top-top qualidee’ non-sense,which has blinded you to the facts.The fact is that Valencia were ready to sell Mustafi for much less during the start of the window,but we (Wenger) dithered.As the window was closing, Valencia sensed our desperation and ratcheted up the price.
The 35 million for Mustafi is a direct result of Wenger’s dithering in the transfer market.
Yes, but what caused the delay? We were also simultaneously negotiating with Lyon for Lacazette then. To fit both into around 50m left of our budget.
Lyon released a document showing we’d made a 35m bid as I recall. Thereabouts anyway. They reportedly wanted about 42-45.
We weren’t far off from negotiating a successful deal for both, which is why once Valencia had named a price, we kept pushing to fit both in. In the end Lacazette was out of reach and Valencia upped their price. (And we got Lucas Perez instead)
I must say though, I’m accepting it as fact, but I have only seen people on this blog say Valencia upped their price. Nowhere else.
Shard
The point here is not why we paid what we did for Mustafi,the deed is already done.
But we now have have to sell him for a huge loss,as a consequence of the actions of the previous management.
This is just one example of how Emery has been saddled with the mismanagement of Wenger and Gazidis.Let us not even go into the Ozil,Mikhitaryan situations.
To say Wenger and Gazidis have nothing to do with the club’s present difficulties on and off the pitch is a joke.
So, to go back to the point of Tim’s article. How long can we legitimately blame Wenger for our woes? 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years?
My point is simple. The situation is what it is. An assessment of the season needs to be about the people who are here, not the people who left. What have Emery and co made of it. If Mustafi is so terrible, why does Emery play him most games? Why was Chambers sent on loan? Why not play the youth more? Why loan Suarez? If the wages are too high, how does benching a player help with his value? How is letting Ramsey go for free a sensible decision in any way? Have we made the most of the talent we do have?
Saying Wenger left us in trouble and it will need time to fix is more a slogan than an actual analysis.
I really don’t get how the focus of any review can be the previous management and not the current one. That’s the real joke.
Nice try deliberately missing the point.
If you have to review the performance of the current management,the magnitude of problems left to them and the time & resources they realistically need to resolve them SHOULD be taken into consideration.
Emery is not perfect (who is ?) and he’s made a few mistakes,but he’s been left a mess to clean up by his predecessor,and his performance should be judged in that context.
A new center-back was brought in this season ,who did an excellent job,not to mention the improvement in Holding before his injury.Emery has tried to limit Mustafi’s involvement,but the alternative is to start a 33-year old who had a career threatening injury two times a week,or a 19-year old who has played two games and been injured for half of the season.The fact that you failed to take into account the facts in your criticism of Emery is disingenuous and laughable.
Arsene failed and left l don’t think he has to bear any blame, the only culprits are those within the hierarchy who gave him more years to f**k things right into ground
PEVHC
I did take into account, which is why I keep saying Emery deserves at least another year. I also say he was never meant to be in charge of the strategic direction of the team and in this regard the club has let him down by not having a DoF. So those failings are not his (or only his)
Obviously it wasn’t perfect, but you want to pretend Wenger left a horrible team. I think Wenger left a team that was well capable of a top 4 finish (The home record shows that they could do it) and Emery’s had a stronger squad than Wenger with the summer additions. (and January changes)
Emery’s also played some pretty boring football. Judging by his own stated intent when he joined, we haven’t been ‘protagonists’, haven’t pressed, haven’t played the youth much, and instead of building on what we did have (great attacking talent) they have been marginalised, while the underlying defensive numbers haven’t really improved either.
But at the end of it, we might get top 4 and/or the EL trophy. Credit for that will go to Emery. Or, going by your logic, Wenger.
PS. On Mustafi.. I know Kos was injured for half the season. We knew that going in. Holding was always going to improve, crazy that Wenger, who was a big believer in him, doesn’t get the benefit of that, again, going by your logic. We also had Chambers who was sent on loan. And Mavropanos, or indeed some youngsters like Medley and Pleguezelo who have barely played (ok if they’re not ready) The point is, even with all the injuries, Emery had options. Any assessment would focus on how he used those options, with the carryover issues simply providing a background. Wanting to make it the topic of discussion smacks of agenda rather than assessment to me.
I don’t understand how you say he left a squad capable of achieving top 4 behind and yet the last 2 seasons have seen us slip from 5th to 6th successively. I can deduce that our squad is not the 4th best, and we have only tried to balance departures by signing new players, we are yet to sign the necessary players that will turn us into title contenders.
Another PL refereeing masterclass today.
Not that we were great otherwise, but man the refereeing in the league is an absolute nonsense.
Those were two soft yellows that changed the game, and a number of non-calls that didn’t help.
But we were poor never looked likely to win. Their first goal was well-taken, and not a horrible mistake by any of our players.
But the second was a good example of how things have gone lately. We spend much of the game punting long towards Laca and Auba, who last won that type of header in the Stone Age, so the ball comes right back. Vardy isn’t much better, but instead of heading that kick back, our CBs let it go and let Vardy run on to it.
Need a massive clear-out this summer and we’re unlikely to have the $ to get much in return. A lot of marbles resting on the Europa League now.
I put it to you that the “who” of this situation is immaterial. Put this into a real life context and it should become clear the there was an actual situation at the hiring stage and one presumes an objective set for a new situation to be reached over a certain time scale. That is what the new team should be measured against. All that matters here is 1. the analysis and evaluation of the situation when recruiting the new incumbent – 2. the objectives/plan agreed with that new incumbent – 3. measurement of the new incumbent’s progress vis- a – vie the objectives/plan agreed. Much of that process will have been based on known known. There will always be mitigating circumstances that will need to be evaluated, however, all else is immaterial. I doubt you will hear Emery using the start situation he inherited from a previous incumbent as a viable argument for his own performance. So why not drop this apportioning of ‘blame’. It is unhelpful, brings emotions into the mix, and blurs the real issues facing our club.
The real issue we are facing is not the Ghost of Wenger but the ghost of a team we have become. I see lots of people here saying that the current coach is having to clean up the previous manager’s mess. I remember reading countless times last season people saying that our current squad is good enough for top 4 , if only we have a coach who does “tactics”, improves players etc etc. Well, we got such a coach. We no longer have a Manager.
Personally, I was excited about Emery when he started and I thought we will improve. And to a certain extent we did. But now I am reconsidering that early season enthusiasm. The more I see a coach who brings a small team mentality to Arsenal. Say what you may about Wenger, he never saw Arsenal as a small team. Emery does. We don’t even aspire anymore to be title contenders. If people tell me that Emery is cleaning Wenger’s mess, then I will say that he has created a new mess. If Wenger brought Xhaka and Mustafi, then Emery brought 7 new people and not many of those have set the world on fire till now in this season. He also benched our most Creative player and our most hard working Mid besides letting him go on free. Please, you can blame Wenger for Xhaka and then let Emery go scot free on Ramsey.
Blame for this is solely on owners. No one else. Not Emery, not Wenger. In my view 100% on KSE. They messed the succession royally. Firstly by letting Wenger stay too Long, then hanging him dry when the fans turned on him and forcing him to exit. Then hiring a coach who is now left hanging because the the whole management structure is in tatters.
*can’t blame Wenger for Xhaka
Ok, I might have to reconsider my full backing of the idea that Emery should stay another year. I mean we all know he will, but is it a good idea?
It’s not so much that it takes time to implement a vision, but what that vision is. He seems to be obsessed with the opponent, in a kind of anti-Wengerian way. He sets up to play as an underdog, which is why it works against the better teams. He’s got more praise for the qualities of the opposition, even if that opposition is Huddersfield, than for his own team.
I mean, I kind of get what he wants to do with the team, and I’m not a fan. I’d still be happy for him to get a chance, but the longer this small time mentality is promoted, the worse it gets. That’s the real mental weakness as far as I’m concerned.
Forget top 4. Wasn’t the new guy supposed to improve our defense simply through better coaching? 3 goals conceded in 3 consecutive games. Even Wenger never had that. He would go defensive and pull out a clean sheet from a struggling team in such a scenario.
Where are the technical midfielders who can maintain possession and progress with the ball as we had years ago?
To add on, let’s look at Emery’s record objectively.
He won 3 Europa league titles (in a competition of mainly mid table teams from Europe). Did he make his Spanish teams compete for titles like Atletico? No.
Did his teams do well in CL? No.
He won one league title with PSG and lost another Ligue 1 title to Monaco and their kids in a league where PSG is miles ahead. His PSG team bombed in CL (mental toughness expectation from this coach?).
So now as we have 2 more games left in he league, I am seriously wondering what made me think that Emery was an upgrade on Wenger!
Joshuad, my bro, sorry. Your Santi/Xhaka story is not true. I addressed that on the dead thread, not realising Tim had done fresh post. Here’s what I said👇🏽
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Your history of Cazorla and Xhaka is totally wrong, Joshua. Cazorla and Xhaka barely overlapped. Xhaka wasn’t here when Santi was in his pomp (finding his home in MF from LW). And Cazorla’s injury-fueled downward spiral occurred once Xhaka arrived. Santi was not deployed at CDM because Xhaka was found wanting there.
It looks a good, neat tale, but it isnt true.
In fact Santi sustained that nasty, unhealable, heartbreaking injury 2 months into Xhaka’s first season with Arsenal, and a couple of years after Santi had made himself our linchpin central midfielder. That season of Xhaka’s arrival and Santi’s epic injury (2016/17) proved to be a disaster of a season for the Spaniard, and he came very close to ending his career.
Santi was long established as our key central midfielder when we bought Xhaka. In fact, gooners generally thought that Wenger had bought the touch-tackling but cultured complement to Santi that Arsenal had needed for years — someone who coud be Santi’s Coq, but could also distribute. It is simply not true that Santi was brought into the midfield because Xhaka was inadequate there.
you’re hearing me wrong, brother. i’m not saying that santi was introduced to the center of the arsenal midfield because xhaka was so poor. i’m saying that santi was RETAINED in the arsenal midfield because xhaka was so poor. my point is wenger didn’t play xhaka regularly until santi got injured and could no longer play.
arsenal didn’t have a fit 6 so they paid £35 million for xhaka to replace arteta in the 6-role, not to partner santi as an 8. aaron ramsey was the arsenal 8. cazorla is not really a 6, he was simply doing a job for the club, filling in for the oft injured mikel arteta.
It’s great we are losing now, because we were over achieving early in the season. We are now witnessing a correction. Iwobi lacks a cutting edge, so does Mhkitaryan. Xhaka is the best of the slowest CDM’s we have had in a while, our defense has a major clown in Mustafi and we have fallen victim to injury to key personnel who should be replaceable if we actually had a good squad, but that is the problem we don’t have a good squad.
Left back- none(Monreal is aging and Kolasinac can’t defend as he’s a wingback.
Right-back-injured(Licht is too slow and AMN is filling in at that position or it seems like he could grow into that position.
Centre-back- Koscielny is old and injury prone, he wanted to leave as Wenger was leaving.
Papasthopoulos-Over 30 and prone to errors
Mavropanos- not trusted and not used.
Mustafi- serial blamer and king of errors.
Holding-injured
In essence we will be looking to move on Mustafi and Koscielny in the summer.
Strikers: This is the only department where we are well stocked.
Midfield Xhaka-too slow
Guendouzi- still raw
Elneny-worse than Xhaka
Torreira-Good but small, overworked while trying to acclimatise in his 1st season.
Ramsey-Great engine, just recently became a better player in an out of sorts team.
Ozil- Insignificant if he isn’t surrounded by super players.
Mhkitaryan- Usually worthless 70% of his game time in England.
Iwobi-He can’t shoot to save himself and he doesn’t score as a forward should.
Welbeck- injured.
When you look at the analysis we have a team with more negatives, visible by watching them play.
If we had a D.O.F, then I would trust him to advise Emery saying: Okay, you like playing a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 why don’t you integrate the youngsters who have the skill and teach them how to perform consistently, this is the style and skill set prevalent in our academy and we can do better than what we see some of the main team play. But we don’t have that now. A lot of people are hung up about Emery’s mistakes in the past, what about Raul’s errors at Barcelona and how this could be our undoing this summer.
Removing Wenger was one step, building a competitive side is the next step, this current crop of players need to justify their positions and leave if found wanting. It’s the least we can do or else we will slip further without replacement and reinforcement.
No wonder you like Emery. He seems to send out his players with the same lack of belief in them. Them playing as poorly as they are has something to do with the coach too, no? Or was it just Wenger the GM we needed to fire and not Wenger the coach? In which case, we seemingly already replaced him with StatsDNA, and then Sven.
And why does Emery need a DoF to tell him to use the youth? Does he not have access to those players himself? No, it’s because here too, he approaches things with fear.
Emery’s going to stay, and our issues are higher up as you point out. But Emery’s much vaunted coaching and tactical nous have not stood up to the test. He might improve, because he is hard working, but I find it difficult to believe he’ll become more adventurous and attack minded. Those sorts of things don’t really change. This is not what he and Arsenal led us to believe was the plan.
Btw, agree on Raul. I completely distrust him. He will be the ruin of Arsenal in my -admittedly alarmist- opinion.
I don’t think Emery will stay beyond 2 years, if he doesn’t qualify for the Champions League this season and if he doesn’t do better next season.
Emery was meant to be a first team coach, with higher input from a D. O. F in my opinion. Now the only person who he answers to is Raul and quite frankly, I’m not impressed by Raul. Influence is a very important factor in a team. Wenger had David Dein during the Invincibles era, Daniel Levy is doing something similar at Tottenham though he is the chairman, but we desperately need to have an identity.
I am basing my assessment of Emery on what he said at the beginning of the season, if he is ruled by fear or sentiments then he is not fit for the position. My main grouse is that in trying to achieve Champions League qualification, he has abandoned his style and he wants to please the club. I wonder how it will work out because we could still lose more points instead of gaining 6 and lose the Europa league, so it would require us starting afresh in the summer. Or, maybe he believes he can get the players to press as he likes, if he has better players at his disposal.
Yup yup. Sven had a plan for Arsenal and Emery seemed willing to execute it. Then Raul took over, suddenly Emery was benching Ramsey and Ozil, and the focus became cutting costs. Even here, I expected we’d then be playing the youth. Project Youth 2.0, but no. We’re doing some weird halfway thing. So most of the issue lies with Raul and the lack of footballing direction.
But Emery has been too conservative with his selections and tactics, without even improving the defense. I don’t believe this will improve just with transfers. It’s an attitude I find hard to get behind. Results notwithstanding. But here’s hoping we can win our remaining games and secure CL for next season.
All is not lost yet. United are out but Chelsea will drop points most likely to Leicester on the final day.
Rodgers has got them playing well and he will be extra motivated to beat Chelsea who “ cost” him the title at Liverpool in 2014.
This thing can still be decided on goal difference between Arsenal and Chelsea.
Some folks never blamed Arsene, or tolerated blame towards Arsene, while he was here. He’s forever frozen in 2004.
Having said that, less than a season since his departure it still feels accurate to see him as among those digging Arsenal’s hole. I’d argue there was at least 5 years of that. Breaking down percentages, not being a number’s guy, doesn’t interest me much. And since Wenger is gone, I’m no longer frustrated by him.
At this point, I’m as equally uninterested in blaming Emery for all this. It was a team effort.
Our crap form has coincided with the loss of Aaron Ramsey. Let us hear you, Ramsey skeptics. What have you got to say now about his importance to the team?
We’ve talked a lot about personnel and overhauls, but the thing that has killed recent Arsenal sides is a lack of fight — a lack of fight and spirit, especially when things go wrong.
Arsenal has in the past scoffed at the British game, and the “pashun” thing. But the best Arsenal team of my lifetime could play them to death, or kick them off the park. This Arsenal, for years, has fallen to pieces in adversity.
Probably why some people still blame Ardene like me, because the lack of fight is a left over from his reign.
Emery is wrong in dilly-dallying and not imposing his style. But when Iwobi has a chance to shoot and it goes straight to the keeper, you can’t blame the coach, you just want to get a more intelligent and efficient player in his place.
I meant Arsene.
You can coach someone like Iwobi — or Kolasinac — to be more direct once they get to the box. They’d win some penalties running at players.
I came offer an opinion on the game because didnt see it or most of the recent losses. It’s been a really busy time for me of late. Normally I’d watch highlights, but I can’t bring myself to in this case.
There were 4 signs in the last few years of Arsenes reign which suggested things were going wrong…
1. He lost his ruthlessness. Used to sell players at peak or those who didnt meet his highest standards. Countless examples over 20 years. His reluctance to rid Walcott, Vermaelen, Gibbs, Song etc etc were painful to endure. And now it seems he indulged in the likes of Ozil and others. The old Arsene would never have put up with the mediocrity we kept for years at the club. He just couldn’t see beyond or through the limited squad he’d built.
2. Evident that we were no longer creating superstars from promising players. There was no improvement over seasons and players seemed to regress. Something was going wrong with our training. Same mistakes and lack of progress. What happened to Miyachi, Zalalem, Crowley Gnarby who seemed to have talent but never developed. Bad enough senior players regressed our lack of bringing through an expensive and indulged academy was significant.
3. He became a dick for a tick. Reluctant to pay the extra cash to player club or agent to secure the lastmpieve of the jigsaw we needed. At critical times we choked to buy the DM or CF that would complete the team. Countless examples of the nearly men.
4. Our talent scouting went seriously off the rails. Dont know if it was StatsDNA or Grimondi getting a brainstorm but people like Chamakh, Sonogo (we had the pick of the French u20 world champions and we got the donkey) Campbell, Wellington, Park, Gervinho, Santos, Musatafi etc. We haven’t signed any talent for years now. Even Ozil was a last minute RM reject. Where were the diamonds?
Wenger was too proud to bring extra specialist coaches and ignored defence, he just didnt believe in it. Great for entertainment but disasterous to get results . As the EPL progressed evident we were unable to steam roll our way across teams. Is Steve Bould really elite?
Another thing is identity. We had no captain no one after the invicibles all left who idenitified with being Arsenal. No leadership on the field or dressing room. No Adams Keane Terry Henderson who bled Arsenal. What it means to succeed and achieve.
We were unlucky with injuries and key player unavailability, Ramsey, Wiltshire, Eduardo, Diaby, Corzola, even Van Persie Ox Rosicki etc etc. Huge holes. Look at Liverpool now or other great successful teams. Keeping a spine of your best players is critical to success and familiarity and building understanding in a team. Should he have got rid of the injury prone?
It didn’t help.
In the end we got desperate. Signed names not required instead of talent or balance. Desperate to hold onto Ozil and Sanchez paid thru the nose for Mikhi and Auby. In hindsight contracts we couldn’t afford to save face and maybe placate a rowdy fan base. We lost focus of who we are, our traditions of unearthing talent and developing a team of hungry motivated individuals. Unfortunately there’s too much competition now to find and buy the best young players. We need to have a style strategy and plan of the type of team we need and get there in stages. Kopp, Poch, Pep teams such as BM RM Barca have a vision and go about creating. We don’t as yet. Does Emery? You can’t tell, He’s been hampered by injuries and a squad of players he’d rather not have. Tough to judge as he’s had little choice but to play with the hand he’s been dealt.
The issues in my mind have been evident in recent years. Much as I was happy to give the benefit of the doubt in the years when cash was tight it wasn’t really about the money after all,