Just to wrap up the reporting of Arsenal Club Legend and soon to be statue at the grounds, Aaron Ramsey, we have a few things.
The Guardian published that he’s on a mere £300k a week. That’s much more in line with what he was rumored to have been offered by The Arsenal.
That salary also brings the total contract to £62.4m over 4 years. To compare, Chelsea paid £55m in transfer fees and salary for Danny Drinkwater. Man City paid £60m for Mahrez plus an annual salary of about £6m taking the total cost of that deal to £84m. So, it looks like £63m for Ramsey was just about the right amount.
Second, while I may not agree with the “legend” label (and don’t really want to argue it because it’s completely subjective) I also think that the club’s official statement on Ramsey leaving was quite, shite.
That’s just unbelievable. The man won three FA Cups. He’s scored 61 goals and has 64 assists. He’s been with us for 11 years. He had his leg broken by Ryan Shawcross and fought back to play for the club again. He suffered abuse from the Orcs at Stoke. He also once refused to shake Piers Morgan’s hand because Morgan made a career of bashing Ramsey on twitter every game. Compare that statement to the one they published when Cazorla left the club:
I expect more from this club. We aren’t Chelsea. We have values. This seems incredibly poor. I hope they rectify this oversight before this summer.
Juventus have also hinted at how they see him fitting into the team, as a Mezzala. It’s an Italian hipster term for a sort of wide midfielder in a 433. It’s the Pogba role, if you will. Which is funny because yesterday I said that he might play as second striker but last February I wrote a piece which compared the two players and Ramsey came out quite favorably. He does a lot of things very well, and no matter where they play him, he will score goals and create chances.
And finally, if the club do make a statue for him, I suggest the Jesus Christ Pose:
Thanks for everything Rambo.
Does the post Wenger Arsenal still have” values”?
And if so then what are they?
that’s a good question. there’s been a lot of change over lately.
In fairness to the club though, if you see the Arsenal site now, it’s littered with clips, articles and photos of Ramsey but agree the official statement doesn’t sound very thoughtful.
Not too concerned about the post. The season is going on and the player is still playing with us unlike Cazorla. I’m pretty confident the club and players will do something special as the season winds down.
Good luck Rambo! I want all the players who leave Arsenal to be successful free/with fee as long as they don’t go to our direct rivals.
I thought the same about player still playing, but then saw how big a deal they’d made about Cech after he announced his retirement.
I don’t care if Ramsey’s going to another club or what happened. This was weird and really not good enough.
There’s really no reason for this terse a statement unless there was some bad blood or something. But maybe it’s just an oversight. They are trying to make up for it.
Arseblog has noted a trend of terse club statements this season. The “post-Wenger” comment higher up the page kind of rings true here.
I’m a huge Ramsey fan, but he’s not going to get, nor deserves a statue. Even among legends there is a hierarchy lol.
Yes, the statement was weird, and though they’re trying to make up for it now after Twitter called them out on it, it’s a bit late.
We’re not Chelsea, we’re Barcelona. Call it just a rant or whatever, but this Raul Sanllehi chap seems to not understand Arsenal after playing political games at Barcelona for a decade. That’s an opinion from a position of ignorance. But I don’t like what I see from Arsenal recently and it coincides with Gazidis’ departure.
What… are we still even playing?
More importantly, Ramsey is ace. Full stop.
Arsenal management need to get their thumb out their arse and do better. So glad the Rams lost in the SB (just typing that made me angry…and a bit sick).
i still don’t understand how the club and the player agreed a deal but it didn’t get signed. did they actually agree a deal? did the club renege on an agreed deal? why didn’t ramsey sign the deal? was the deal negotiated under wenger but refused by emery? is this a sign of things to come from arsenal? ugh.
signing a player on a free transfer is always of huge benefit to both the club and player. i realized that when arsenal signed sol campbell from scum. he was on like 130k a week while the other top earners were all on 80k and it was because he signed on a free transfer.
a club signs the free-agent player and, based on their market value, pay the player a percentage of that value in addition to their wages, prorated over the life of the contract. i’m sure juventus would rather pay ramsey £20 million than pay arsenal £40 million. likewise, i’m sure ramsey appreciates the pay hike that goes to him instead of a club that, allegedly, withdrew an agreed contract. it’s a sweet gig if you can pull it off and i’m happy for any player who can get paid like that.
Ornstein on the BBC podcast today was being contradictory. Deal was close with Arsenal but Ramsey had no intention of signing and always meant to leave on a free. Huh? Me thinks he’s getting his info from the club and that’s the line they are taking to cover themselves.
Ramsey told us he thought they’d agreed a deal and was waiting to hear back from the club. I believe him. How this happens is simple. You get an offer sheet from the club with just the terms you’ve been going back and forth over rather than a full contract. Once you agree either in writing, or in Arsenal’s case it used to be verbally was good enough, then a contract is drawn up, vetted and then signed. And media announcements and photoshoots etc arranged.
I thought Ramsey had an offer, sat on it, Arsenal found out he was shopping the deal to other clubs and decided to yank it when they saw they were being used. So both things are true – he had an offer to his liking but never really intended to re-sign with the club and his agent used it as a template for negotiations with other clubs. Hence why the deal with Juve is not that dissimilar to what Arsenal offered. They more or less matched.
“i still don’t understand how the club and the player agreed a deal but it didn’t get signed. did they actually agree a deal? did the club renege on an agreed deal? why didn’t ramsey sign the deal? was the deal negotiated under wenger but refused by emery? is this a sign of things to come from arsenal?”
_________________
I explained this before, and I honestly don’t know why you find it so hard. A contract is produced at the point of agreement.
In a recent executive role, the recruiter told me what the draft offer was… what was going to go into a written up contract if I had immediately said yes. We scheduled a call. I asked for (and gave my rationale for) an improved salary offer by x, and 5 weeks’ paid vacation instead of 4. They came back next day with a bump of 0.6x, and agreed the 5 weeks.
I took it, then they emailed a contract for me to sign.
What seems to be the problem getting this, Josh? All the comments, from the player and club officials, made clear that the club walked way from an agreement they reached with the player sometime round September/October.
Claude, in layman’s terms you’re right about point of agreement – that’s why verbal contracts are theoretically enforceable.
But in strict legal terms I’m not sure Ramsey’s agents and the club ever reached that stage. There was an “offer”, Ramsey and his agency indicated his willingness to stay, but it wasn’t agreed to and signed.
The primary piece of evidence was Ramsey asking Arsenal why “an offer” was taken off the table. He never suggested Arsenal reneged, indicating there was no “agreement”. He never used the word agreement.
A second piece of evidence was Ramsey’s agency using their twitter acct to rebut twitter ITK’s who wanted to jump the gun for RTs by claiming an agreement was already in place. If there was an “agreement”, they’d probably have been vocal about it.
Once you enter the last year of your contract without agreeing a renewal, effectively what you’re doing is testing the market. The club can indulge you and wait on you, or they can make a decision. If anything Arsenal made it easy for Ramsey to hide the fact he was thinking about leaving, something which had already been reported over a year ago.
Issuing a sort of correction: Ramsey did say “a few week backs we sort of agreed and I was ready to sign”.
It’s fuzzy language, but does back up Claude’s version of events.
And Sanllehi said as much, and sort of explained why in broad, general terms
While a verbal contract maybe legally enforceable in theory, that’s not how it actually works in the real world. Your employment contract came easily because most employment contracts these days are considered “employment at will”. Meaning you could go to work, after one week decide that job’s not for you and give notice. Same goes true for your employer. They may decide after your first week you are not going to work out for them and terminate you. Neither one of you will have any recourse if you end up with the short end of the stick.
Player contracts are far more complex. You may verbally agree a base number on principal but a lot more work goes to make the contract iron clad. Player contracts can have an appearance clause, a bonus clause, a sell-on clause, media behavior clause, community activity clause. It’s a long list of agreements that multiple parties have to sign off on before there is an official contract. Otherwise there is absolutely ZERO chance that any agreement will hold up in court.
So yeah.. we actually don’t know exactly what the “agreement” here was. Was it just an agreement in principal? In that case, the club officials are entitled to change their minds. It happens every summer. An agreement is reached in principal between some player and a new club but the deal doesn’t go through. There could be a myriad of reasons why.
That’s all useful info, but none of it alters the facts of the matter.
Sanllehi AND the player made clear that Arsenal walked back on an agreement. So we can talk about complexities of contracts till the cows come home… the basic facts of the story are not really in dispute.
It baffles me why gooners want to go all Kellyanne Conway on a straightforward set of facts 🙂
Well, Sanllehi also made a point of drawing a redline for any other players thinking of doing what Ramsey and Özil did.
What precipitated Ramsey leaving wasn’t just Arsenal withdrawing a contract offer, it was Ramsey choosing to run down his contract and forcing Arsenal to cut their losses or commit money to a talented but inconsistent and injury-prone player. That’s also a pretty salient fact.
Wenger warned us about players doing this. Let’s not pretend this wasn’t a win-win situation for Ramsey.
claudeivan, i understand how an agreement is reached. my question is if you reached an agreement, how didn’t it get signed? it doesn’t take that long to draw up a contract. it doesn’t take that long to sign a contract. my implication is something happened that caused the agreement to not be signed in a reasonable time and we don’t know what that is.
The CEO left
Not buying this man. To say that Ramsey signed a contract and his signed contract was on the CEO’s table but didnt get executed due to IG’s departure assumes a lot more than the news that came out of either camp. Ramsey’s claims of having “sort of a contract” tells me he didnt sign off on it despite having it in front of him for months. Look I don’t begrudge Ramsey for trying to get the best deal for himself but if it wasnt signed then the club was well within its rights to pull it even if there was an agreement in principle.
There was never any contract. Why does this keep confusing people? Ramsey didn’t sign a contract because the club never put one in front of him.
And I don’t even have an issue with that. I have an issue that the club didn’t put a contract in front of Ramsey after they had reached agreement on the terms. They withdrew it and didn’t even inform Ramsey about it. Because that’s just how the new Arsenal roll apparently.
Aaron Ramsey – the Arsenal legend , cheapens the club’s legend status for me personally.
I’m one of those ignorant Arsenal fans who’s only come on board in the last 20 years or so and who’s never bothered much to dive deeper into Arsenal’s rich history. But even still, if I had to pick the all time best 11( which in my case would only entail the Wenger years) , Ramsey would still not make the cut.
I really don’t see how he qualifies for legendary status and yet a player like Rosicky didn’t get it, Per didn’t get it and Giroud as well. They did as much, if not more than him consistently. I really have issues with allocating a certain achievement to a player, when there where better players in the overall campaign. Rosicky did so much for our first two FA cup campaigns, Carzola as well, Per too and Ozil for all three. But because Ramsey scored in the final, that is what is usually remembered.
I see the FA Cup successes and how Ramsey is praised for them, how I see Bale being praised for his Champions League final exploits, even though others put in the hard yards to get the team there in the first place. He put a lot of finishing touches on a lot of our successes, but his impact is not was not as great as it is being intimated. I remember him being a part of the side and playing well, but not really so well that the trophies could be attributed to his performances throughout. He is no Eder, Portugal’s Euro winning goalscorer, but other players were more integral to our success in those campaigns. I even went back and looked for documentaries about our successes and he doesn’t feature much in the big moments, other than the final goals.
So not to take anything away from Ramsey, our raumdeuter, but his achievements are even more disappointing when I see Ozil’s treatment and criticism. That one can do more, and be considered a failure and another can do less and be in the running for legendary status.
Excellent comment, Devlin. As fans, we remember players for great moments and not for the body of their work for a reason. The game winning goal in a cup final is such an adrenaline rush. Adrenaline is a hormone that not only heightens the senses but also increases neural plasticity and makes the brain susceptible to imprinting by experiences, whether negative or positive. I bet we all remember Ramsey’s goal that resulted in the Jesus pose because we all lost our minds in that moment having come back from 2-0 down to finally win a trophy. I bet fewer people remember the 4-0 drubbing of Aston Villa, though it was a far better team performance and orchesterated by Ozil and Sanchez, or even the 2-1 win against Chelsea, a far more difficult match won in no small part by the defensive brilliance of Mertesacker and Rob Holding. .
Wow, United pulled an Arsenal today. Lose the game, lose two in-form players to injury and another to a card, all at the same time! Mind you, we haven’t had a red card for what seems like ages now…
Enjoy more, question less. It’s always a good day when Man U lose to anyone.,,😆😊👍🎉
This emoji freak out feels good. Like watching Man U LOSE, those LOSER wankers. Ok, I’m done.
And they barely made the 41 year old Buffon work.
I don’t think he had to make a single save from a shot on goal the entire game, save from Rashford’s cross/ shot from the right , which probably would’ve bounced off the post and out anyways.
I always remember Ian Wright talking about how he never negotiated with Arsenal – he just old his agent to sign what was offered. Probably typical Wrighty exaggeration but too many are just letting Ramsey slide for dragging this process out.
Yes he deserves our respect for his service and his sheer balls and his trophy-winning goals. But people need to accept that maybe, just maybe, the man was ready for a new challenge and the club aren’t the bad guys here?
This type of thing where we’re analysing club statements just underlines how much navel-gazing we do at this club about things that have nothing to do with football or why we became Arsenal fans.
I don’t think Vieira left the club in the best of circumstances. Pretty sure there were some terse statements back then too, so the only unusual thing about this is people’s expectation that a club should pretend it’s happy about letting 40m walk out the door.
Stan Kroenke has boats that cost more than Aaron Ramsey and unlike Ramsey he’s shown that he gives a toss about our club.
Rambo is entitled to and should get every last penny he can, full stop.
Not quite done, here’s a question:
Which post Invincible player deserves “legend” status (whatever that means to you), if any? For the record, no one make the cut for me, except Santi because I fu#king love Santi and I won’t hear a word against him, his record or his brevity at the club.
Santi is the cream of the crop over the last 10-12 yrs. Without a doubt there are faster, stronger and more talented soccer players in world football. However, there is no one that combines humility, joy, sportsmanship and genuine likeability with world class talent like Santi does. Legend? Yes, in that he is one of the very few players I have pointed to as an example for my son, now 17. Worthy of a statue? Unfortunately, no.
I do like Aaron Ramsey and hope to see him lift trophies in Turin. However, I’d argue that Santi’s free kick that jump started our comeback win vs. Hull City is as important, if not more so than Ramsey’s game winners. Without that goal, we may not have won a single FA Cup, much less 3.
OT a little bit, but it seems our social media driven society has devalued how we describe certain people. “Hero”, “legend”, “icon” even “diva” have lost something from their original use. You can’t go a day w/o hearing someone referred to as an “hero.” That’s why I believe we don’t have a statue worthy player from the ranks of Arsenal in the last decade or so. I’d hate to devalue what it means to have a statue in from of the Emirates.
Just my .02…
Tommy
I don’t think any post-invincible players have done enough to be considered “legendary.” A few had a chance but either got crocked for too long, or left the club too early, or both.
No problem with Santi’s statue at the Ems.
As a matter of fact if they ever commission one they should do one where he’s standing there with one bare foot with maggots gnawing at his right Achilles and a caption” so ambidextrous no one cared he could’ve lost either foot”
Cazorla’s contributions to Arsenal Football Club, while laudable, do not, remotely, merit a statue. Ramsey legend, Santi statue. Has measuredness taken a holiday?
Not taking anything away from him. Santi played wide creator (the Iwobi role), before being an absolute revelation at central mid.
Tongue in cheek, Claude.
This was a bit of a dig at Wenger for playing him while injured and the club for almost costing him his foot through medical negligence.
I know that you weren’t being serious, Tom. Others were, it would seem.
Can we all take a moment to enjoy the rant of this Chelsea fan? Dying here:
https://twitter.com/footbalifights/status/1094695351636975617?s=12
Considering Chelsea have won some 15 trophies since Roman took over, this can only be attributed to se#ual deprivation.
Poor guy. Lol.
Haha. You nailed it.
That was glorious. Particularly enjoyable for me was his hatred of Marcos Alonso. Such a dirty little sh*t (the player, not the dude in the rant).
The only thing missing from this clip is his hand flying into at full blast ceiling fan.
the closest thing arsenal have had play at a legend level, post invincibles, is robin van persie. he was at the club for about 8 years and was a fan favorite when he was at arsenal. although he suffered with a ton of injuries, when he was fit, he was the only truly world class player arsenal had. santi cazorla, cesc fabregas, alexis sanchez, william gallas, mesut ozil, and bacary sagna get an honorable mention because of the exceptionally high level of their play. however, robin van persie is atop that pile.
aaron ramsey get’s no mention because he’s never been an important part of a championship team and he’s never been anywhere close to world class.
Don’t want to wade into definitions of legends or world-class, but objectively fabregas has probably achieved more in his career than van persie. I’m guessing Sanchez probably also has.
And if it’s just Arsenal, what did rvp give? 1-2 brilliant seasons and a lot more crocked ones?
RvP will always only be a legendary [insert expletive] regardless of how good a player he was for us. Ramsey should/will always be remembered fondly regardless of whether one considers him legend or not quite.
To me the statement doesn’t look like an oversight. It is a logical follow-up on the behavior during the contract “negotiations”. It basically says “we don’t want you at this club, GTFO”.
I don’t know if we still have values at the club. We have Raul Sanllehi.
#SanllehiOut
Yeah. He looks like an older Santi Cazorla but sounds like Sean Dyche. A clear giveaway he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
There’s a lot of value, and you can measure it all in dollars.
Its a mistake and will always remain a mistake,how can you loose someone of his class just for free?….makes me sad!!!
Omar Tari, notable free transfers in recent years have involved players such as Paul Pogba, Robert Lewandwoski, Sol Campbell and Andrea Pirlo. Clubs do their best to safeguard against losing assets like Ramsey on the Bosman but it does happen to everyone.
I’ve stood up for Ramsey countless times during his Arsenal career, most especially in 2012 when he was asked to assume the creative mantle from the departed Fabregas and was unable to make an impact as a central creative midfielder. The 2014 campaign when Ramsey briefly impersonated Eusabio and won Wenger’s first FA cup in 9 years to end #TrophyDrought is still my favorite post-Invincibles Arsenal season. I even stood up for him in 2015 when he was coming off the back of his magical 2014 campaign when everything he hit became a goal and he got it into his head that he was Steven Gerrard. I also stood up for him this season when he was part of the star-crossed front 4 experiment with Ozil, and Aubazette. I only own one player kit and it has “Ramsey” on its back. In short, I’ve always had a soft spot for him.
That doesn’t mean he is a club legend in my book. It doesn’t mean he’s blameless in the contract negotiations that broke down and it doesn’t mean he is worth the $64 million dollar contract he reportedly signed and probably held out for. What Chelsea and Man City pay for a player is not reality and shouldn’t be used as a bellweather for market value. Drinkwater’s value was greatly inflated by Leicester’s epic 2015 campaign, and they were taken to the cleaners on him. It was an epic flub and an anecdote besides. The Drinkwater deal should do nothing to inform what Ramsey is worth.
The reality of the situation as far as I can see is that the club didn’t want to pay him the wages he wanted. He played hardball and in the end, got what he wanted somewhere else. Arsenal stuck to their guns and so did Ramsey. It’s a business and at the end of the day there was no deal between the sides. We don’t have to deal out pieces of the blame pie over this, do we? Let’s celebrate what Ramsey did for the club, but let’s not blow it all out of proportion. Does anyone even mention Ramsey being a club legend if he signs a new contract with us? My guess is we would be wringing our hands instead about over-paying another good but not great player.
Joined us as a teenager who was in demand, including by ManU. Suffered a horrible injury but came back and never hid on the field. Played for us during some of the toughest times of the club. Had that miraculous season where we also broke our trophy drought. And yes he didn’t do it alone, but he was a big part of it. Just when we thought we were going to extra time, did it again 3 years later. Has scored some brilliant goals. 60+ goal and assists.
But there’s the intangibles. He just gets it. He’s an Arsenal man. Santi n Ozil had other grooming places. Giroud likewise. But Ramsey was always ours, and no matter what the club’s propaganda machine puts out, he intended to stay at the club.
He never agitated for a move when he could have. He agreed to leave money on the table to stay (this is what people have a hard time believing I guess) He should have been Arsenal captain and retired here like Tony Adams. The club pushed him out, and he, like he was always going to do, landed on his feet. It’s our loss. But Ramsey is a club legend to me. I think history will be a lot kinder to him than people want to be at this moment.
Another player who left us for Juventus. Liam Brady. Won just 1 FA Cup with us. Spent less time at the club. Scored less goals. Had less appearances(I think). But he’s just ours. Ramsey may not have had hopes pinned on him the same way as they were on Brady, but like him he’s played in some average teams but showcased some great skill, provided some great moments and been part of more trophies. If Brady is a club legend, why isn’t Ramsey?
The club didn’t push him out. There was a contract on the table for a long time and Ramsey could’ve signed it. He is not a “legend” for me because he was Arsenal’s best player for at most one season in his long tenure here and the club never won a title during his stay. Fabregas is probably just short of legend status as well even though he was our best player for years because we never won anything with him. For my money to be “legend” is the highest status you can attain. Where else is there to go from there? It’s rarified air reserved for players who had a transformative effect on the club. If we go by these rules, we would also canonize Theo Walcott because he is an Arsenal lifer who was generally a nice bloke who loved Arsenal and scored a hatful of goals for us. No way a club legend though.
People made a big fuss when Alex Hleb left the club for Barcelona under similar circumstances and a few months later he wasn’t playing and nobody at Arsenal noticed he was gone. Now he’s a bit of a laughing stock even though he was an important player in some good Arsenal sides back then. Probably the most similar instance though is Mathieu Flamini who is also a good player who left Arsenal for a bigger club and bigger wages on a Bosman, but I hope we can all agree he is no legend.
So why is Brady a legend?
And no to the contract thing. There was no ‘contract on the table’ for Ramsey to sign. Why is it so hard to believe that the club pulled an offer Ramsey agreed to? The Ceo changed, we went on this austerity drive, and look at how we’re trying to force Ozil out. Clearly this club doesn’t behave in accordance with the values of the past. But Ramsey must have caused this?
Even if you believe Ramsey was looking elsewhere and had no interest in signing, the fact is the club never put a contract in front of him. (This is actually not disputed in any version of events reported) They just assert he never intended to sign without ever having tested that theory, and we’re supposed to believe them despite Ramsey’s words to the contrary? I really don’t get this.
Why is Brady a legend?
I wasn’t around to see Brady play but he was by all accounts not just the best player on Arsenal while he was here but also one of the best in the English league and probably the world. Can you say the same for Ramsey?
As for the contract, neither of us know what really happened but it’s hardly a leap to suggest that if the club took a contract offer off the table, that means there WAS a contract offer on the table… a contract that Ramsey could have signed a long time ago if he really just wanted to be a gunner.
Doc. Please. A contract offer is not a contract.
It is an offer of terms which if agreed to, would go towards drafting the contract.
Ramsey was never presented with a document that he could sign to stay a Gunner. This is not in doubt in any version of events reported.
Fair enough on the legend bit. I disagree but that’s all subjective.
The negotiation took a long time, but they reached an agreement.
The “contract on the table” stuff is reporter cliche, which supporters come to believe is literal. It doesn’t work like that. As has been discussed already, ad nauseum.
Look, Arsenal FC is a grown up organisation. You don’t show youre angry about dallying after the transfer window has closed.
Clearly, by Gazidis allowing that to happen, the parties were signalling that an agreement was likely. The tipping point was CLEARLY Gazidis’ departure, and (Im speculating here) Raul’s desire to show the size of his balls, in a move he probably never supported, didn’t have the power to affect.
Doc, while I agree that he wasn’t a legend (in my estimation only Adams, Vieira, Bergkamp and Henry) of recent(ish) vintage qualify, you’re again being uncharitable about Ramsey’s contribution, which went far beyond a single season.
Unless youre telling us that he had 60+ goal involvements and we played 3 FA Cup finals in that one season.
He was a very important to the way (your man) Wenger played. In Wenger’s system, the forwards were scorers as well as providers (especially Giroud, Sanchez and Ozil), and by drawing defenders, the late break into the box from midfield was key.
Very well said, Shard. I agree with you completely (except maybe the”legend” thing – this label is not of big interest to me)
Well said, Shard.
This especially 👇🏽
“He agreed to leave money on the table to stay (this is what people have a hard time believing I guess)”
I call it narrativitis. People don’t want to believe what doesn’t fit their pre-conceiveds. But who are Raul Sanllehi and Aaron Ramsey to tell them definitively what happened, who was Ramsey to say he wasn’t told why they walked back on an agreement, and who was Sanllehi to carefully explain why?
For Ramsey, it’s somehow fitting. Never has so much guff been written about a player, who, as his O and D records show, was a damn good midfielder for Arsenal.
Oh, a few points of logic about this “contract on the table” nonsense.
If the employer has the terms and conditions of someone’s employment on the table (or an email attachment, literally) and the understanding is that the only option is to sign, then you are not really having a negotiation. You are presenting the other party with a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.
But… we know from everything that everyone said over the summer that there were no hard posts… the parties WERE talking. Therefore the claim makes no sense.
So if Arsenal were not pulling take-it-or-leave it brinkmanship on Ramsey, and talks were proceeding as is normal with football contracts, it is simplistic to say that the player refused to sign “a contract”.
Take-it-or-leave-it propositions are positions of last resort. So to say that “There was a contract on the table for a long time and Ramsey could’ve signed it”, doesn’t really reflect the reality of these things.
Of course a player can make clear that we won’t be re-signing under ANY circumstances (Alexis). And a club can make clear that they won’t be extending (BFG etc), which logic dictates is not something you do after leaving 35, 40m on the table during the window.
Kaius had a really good response to on e of my comments, about the many elements that comprise a footballer’s contract. That actually underscores my point the mythical “contract on the table”.
Credit to NYCGunner, that was his point about different elements to a contract, not mine!
Thanks for writing this stuff on contracts claude. What I’d been trying to say without being able to express myself clearly.
I guess what causes confusion is people take a contract offer to literally mean the offering of a contract, lol. I just had a visual of a butler walking in with those covered food trays, “and for your consumption and approval, may I offer you your new contract”
Yes, I’m a bit weird. I apologise for nothing.
Oh and definitely the last thing… Ashley Cole and Arsenal were 5k a week apart on his salary, and he famously nearly crashed his car when his agent phoned him to tell him what Arsenal’s counter (or final) offer was.
Of course his tale was self-serving, because he was already playing footsie with Jose Mourinho.
But you, know it was on his Motorola Razr, not the table 🙂
It’s pretty rich to accuse the club of serving up propaganda over Ramsey, then annoint him an “Arsenal man” unlike Cazorla, Ozil and Giroud because those guys were “groomed” elsewhere. Eh?
Ramsey was groomed and developed at Cardiff. He’s not a Wilshere, Iwobi or a Smith Rowe who came through the ranks.
We overcompensate for our faves too much at Arsenal. In reality Ramsey was almost never fit enough during the crucial Jan til May stretch to follow through on his immense potential. Partly the victim of the Banter Era like his fellow almost-legends Rosicky and Santi, but it’s mostly down to his own failings which weren’t just physical – they were tactical as well.
People can soothe their anxieties by demonising Sanllehi or the club all they like. The hard facts on the ground are two newcomers, one 19, the other 22, arrived this summer and in their first six months in England have reminded us what proper central midfield specialists look like. Elneny has also been a victim of Torreira and Guendouzi’s excellence. And as an attacker Ramsey may lead our assist charts, but is nowhere near prolific or technically consistent enough.
Arsenal finally snapped out of our CL-revenue induced reverie, smelled the coffee, and after last summer’s error, the club has made the right call here.
Ramsey was supported by the club through his major injury, and lots of minor ones, also indulged hugely by Wenger allowing him to always play selfishly . Yes he gets the odd spectacular goal, but he has often been 70 yards away from the guy he should be tracking when we concede many.
Engineering a free move in my view is like stealing money from the club that made him what he is (which is very over rated, I expect Juve will find). That’s why he doesn’t deserve a Cazorla type tribute.
Exactly. Some players even sign small extensions with the full knowledge they’re going to be sold, just to ensure their clubs can get a transfer fee for them.
Arsenal gave Ramsey the platform to succeed and rehabbed his career when other teams might’ve cut him. People who think Arsenal haven’t honoured their “values” are missing the bigger picture.
The fact that Ramsey is fit and playing regularly enough to attract a club like Juve *is* the end result of the club’s values.
Mixing two issues here. Not signing Ramsey to a new contract is not a decision lacking in Arsenal values. Making an offer which the player agrees to, and then pulling the offer, without even having the decency to talk to him about it is what shows a lack of values.
Clubs have a duty of care to their employees. They shouldn’t get accolades for aiding the recovery of injured players, who, after all, got sick/injured on the job. Arsenal did the bare minimum for an injured Ramsey. Im a little disappointed that Welbeck is being shown the door after getting injured on the job.
But that’s not what the values discussion was about. Shard is right. Values isn’t about fulfilling your routine obligations, which we did for Ramsey, Rosicky, Van Persie and Cazorla. It’s how Arsenal acted in the Ramsey contract situation (with a lack of decency), and how they’re acting in the brutal constructive dismissal of Mesut Ozil, who, again, had been dropped from the traveling Europa squad.
The Ozil situation isn’t about football, because you can’t tell me that he ISN’T one of the best 18 players are Arsenal. That he has gone from MOTM against Leicester, to a nobody. I’ve criticised Mesut much for workrate, but his treatment by Arsenal is unconscionable.
I don’t much care for the Arsenal of Sanllehi, Kroenke (and Emery, to an extent). It’s not one whose values I recognise.
Same.
It’s so depressing. But at the same time, it has been pleasant to note how many people identify with Arsenal for something beyond trophies or winning at football/contracts etc.
I follow people with all sorts of views on Twitter. Even those I find annoying or abhorrent, just to know those views exist, and I see many people gloating about this, others are just backing the club regardless of anything, but many have been voicing their surprise, anger, even disgust at Arsenal’s recent behaviour.
People are an odd mix sometimes. How you can vehemently disagree on something but be completely in agreement on another. Not unlike us here 🙂
But I think Arsenal are gambling here with the patience and goodwill the fans have after the managerial change. They might have underestimated just how much the off field values, and on field attacking football means to their fans. They’re hoping that securing CL and some signings next season will tide it over. May not be the case, even if it happens.
No serious football club’s values include coddling players who are running down their contracts and have little intention of agreeing renewals. So no, Ramsey was not entitled to an explanation. He asked for one though, and guess what? He got a swift public answer from the club. I don’t see the problem.
And no-one has been criticised more by the fanbase since Alexis left than Özil. In fact when has he not been criticised since he came here? I find the idea of everyone being up in arms about him not playing a bit comical to be honest. I care as much about Özil not playing as I care about Elneny not playing, which is not much at all.
Huge respect to Rambo, and Ox before him, for choosing to leave for clubs that are currently more competitive than Arsenal. I love both players and I love that kind of ambition. Because the major context with Ramsey is not Arsenal withdrawing an offer.
It’s Arsenal being lower in the European pecking order, with player’s heads liable to be turned by Champions League clubs. This dynamic deserves slightly more serious consideration than mere “values”.
Shard and Claude, Arsenal has been part of a sport that has been morphing into a global business of unprecedented proportions and they have to move with the times or be left behind. You may not recognize the values of the Arsenal of old but that’s because the Arsenal of old was on its way to mid-table mediocrity, or worse. It can happen, even to this grand old club. The values we respect are in stark contrast to the skills you need to thrive in this new cut throat world of big business football, and that’s why we need guys like Raul. The quaint old football club many gooners grew up watching is dead. Arsene’s exit and the Kroenke buyout were the last nails in its coffin, but the process of that transformation started a long time ago with the increasing involvement of foreign investors and the move to Emirates stadium.
Anyone else read Wenger’s comments today about how Arsenal almost signed Jadon Sancho? Man, he said this kind of thing all the time as his reign at Arsenal came to a close, didn’t he? Ronaldo, Hazard, Messi, the list goes on and on and on. I wonder why he thought it would be encouraging or somehow validating to hear, because every time he said these kinds of things, I just wanted to scream!
How bout because he is a TV pundit now and part of his job is to hype up the match?
I stopped paying attention to Wenger’s near signings a long time ago.
People used to say “I can’t wait to read about what really happened there in Wenger’s tell all book”.
To which I always said “ yea, but it’s not like it’s gospel because Arsene remembers it that way”.
Case in point: if you went by how Wenger remembers it, Yaya Toure slipped through his fingers only because there was a passport issue and the player didn’t want to wait around to solve it while still in Belgium.
The way Yaya tells it, Wenger didn’t think much of him as a second striker
( Wenger’s preference) but definitely didn’t see him as a box to box midfielder,
which was Yaya’s preference and his transfer history seems to bear this out.
Beveren to Metalurh to Olympiacos to Monaco in four years with transfer fees ranging from €2m – €5.5m.
Why not get him then if Wenger knew he was such a talent?
That used to drive me nuts as well.
I think we underplay just how far our stock has fallen in the eyes of players across Europe over the last decade, especially the younger ones. A lot of talented teens today never saw Arsenal win a title.
The game moves on so fast. Pretty wild that Mourinho and Wenger are basically tv pundits now.
It’s weird, isn’t it, that Tottenham are better than Arsenal? That’s a new thing for me.
Yeah no Doc. Or at least, no thanks. What you need to thrive now is money. That’s basically it. And since we’re not going to get that, what’s the point of losing what sets us apart in other ways. I mean Dortmund aren’t cut-throat like say Bayern or Chelsea. But they do ok. In fact, I think it is because of that that they do ok. If they were to treat players as just mercenaries and expendable assets, that’s a battle they’ll lose sooner or later. Similar applies to us. (And there’s a balance to be reached. I’m not arguing for charity. We never were that)
Read about the Neymar transfer to get a sense of Raul Sanllehi. Not pointing figures about any illegalities, but that this guy is in control of Arsenal, is no cause for celebration for me. I didn’t support Arsenal through sh**storms because all I care about are trophies. There’s nothing archaic about having values.
https://thelab.bleacherreport.com/the-never-ending-neymar-transfer-scandal/
And note that it was also under his watch that Neymar’s buyout clause could be activated by PSG. Might even be why he’s not there anymore.