Signed for £5m from Cardiff in 2008 Aaron Ramsey has scored 60 goals and provided 60 assists for Arsenal. Beyond the fantastic goal numbers he’s put up, Ramsey often scores goal of the season type goals, like he did just a few weeks ago against Fulham, his backheel finishing off an impressive Arsenal attack. But despite the numbers he’s put up for Arsenal, the decade at the club, the emotional highs of scoring the winning goal in the 2014 FA Cup final, and the emotional low of having his leg broken by Ryan Shawcross, Aaron Ramsey won’t be an Arsenal player next season.
Some of the facts behind the scenes are unknown. David Ornstein has reported that Arsenal offered Ramsey a contract and that he agreed to it but the contract was nixed by the club before anyone could put pen to paper. I tend to believe that happened because Ornstein is a credible reporter.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the club removed the contract offer after news broke that Ivan Gazidis was leaving for AC Milan. Gazidis’ public courtship of Ramsey was cringey and went so far as to have the official web site post a video of the two of them talking and Gazidis motioning to Ramsey’s arm, indicating that he would look good as Arsenal’s captain. The story about Gazidis leaving Arsenal broke on 19 September in the Guardian and the story that Arsenal have ripped up their offer to Ramsey broke on 27 September in the BBC.
The majority of the supporters I have spoken with think this is a good idea. Ramsey wanted too much money, they said, and some were even a lot less gracious than that – suggesting that he never nailed down a position that he fit in or that he was at best a backup player.
We don’t know how much money was on offer for Ramsey and we don’t know how much money that Ramsey wants for his last ever professional contract, but we can take a pretty good guess. Danny Drinkwater signed for Chelsea for a £35m transfer fee and is now on £100k a week salary on a five year deal. Drinkwater is five months older than Ramsey and was part of that incredible title winning Leicester team. In 218 appearances for Leicester, he scored 15 goals and provided 23 assists. If you divide Drinkwater’s transfer fee and salary by the length of his contract, Chelsea are paying £12m a year (or £230k a week) for the privilege of playing him 500 minutes a year.
I’ve heard the number “£250k a week” mentioned for Ramsey which is an entirely fictitious number. One of the red tops somehow incepted that figure into the collective unconscious of the Arsenal supporters and suddenly that’s the only number anyone will talk about.
What if it was actually £200? What if it was £150? What if it was £100k a week plus an annual £5m bonus? At some point, the salary gets to the point where you decide that he’s “worth it.”
Unlike most fans, I don’t get hung up on how much a player costs and whether he’s worth his salary. I used to, but then I noticed that the more I argued for Arsenal’s poverty, the more the club stockpiled money in the bank. It’s also a foolish argument. There is no objective way to decide if a player is “worth it” or not. You end up arguing from opinion and in that case, no one, or both of us are right.
What I can say is that I can see an English club paying him the equivalent of £200k a week. Why?
First, all of the clubs in the League can afford it. The League is awash with money. Second, he’s homegrown. Clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, and Man City need homegrown players. Why is Chelsea paying £12m a year for Drinkwater? Because they have to.
What if some team signs him to a 3 year deal, give him a £15m signing bonus, and pay him £100k a week? That would be an absolute bargain for a player of Ramsey’s ability and would be reported as “£200k a week”. If he was asking Arsenal for £200k a week, it’s only because he could.
And let’s not forget that the reason he can ask for such a large weekly salary is because the club let Ramsey run his contract down. This is also a source of fan ire. But while Ramsey should have been given a new deal a few years ago, he had an off season in 2016/17 – plagued by injury and never really picked up a rhythm scoring just one League goal. Was it so wrong that the club were hesitant to offer him a new contract? After that season passed, it was almost inevitable that he would run his deal down. Maybe they should have sold him. Maybe.
I’m not a Ramsey supporter. I get that he scores great goals and I marvel at his seemingly unnatural ability to run and run and never stop running. But over the years I have also complained about how he abandons midfield looking for those goals. And I’ve complained about how he crowds the box, acting like a third striker, one who isn’t even really good at putting away chances – where a striker scores 20% of his shots, Ramsey scores like an average midfielder, netting 10% of his chances. A few years back he also gave up tackling and playing defense, which was his selling point for me during the Arteta partnership – that season I proclaimed him a “five tool”, a player who does everything for his club (score, run, pass, create, and play defense), and thought he would be the most valuable player in Arsenal’s midfield over the next few years. I didn’t mind if he bombed forward looking for goals as long as he also put a foot in defensively. But that player seemed to evaporate. He went from averaging nearly 4 successful tackles per90 in 2013/14 to less than 2 this season. And all of the other defensive stats are also half what they were at his zenith.
But at the same time, I’m not a Ramsey hater. Given some structure, play him next to an Arteta type, and given strict instructions to play more conservatively, he would be one of the world’s top midfielders. He may not score as many goals in that system, but I think it would play to his real strengths which are stamina and footballing intelligence.
I can also see why Arsenal didn’t sign him up this year: Ramsey is a known quality, we already have plenty of English players, and the club are clearly building around young midfielders like Guendouzi, Torreira, Emile Smith-Rowe, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, and to a lesser extent Reiss Nelson and Alex Iwobi.
I can appreciate the club making that tough decision. Regardless, I have no doubt that Ramsey will sign a big contract somewhere. Which will be used as a club to beat him with every time their fans (and ours) want to take the mickey.
P.S. – Apparently my ambivalence wasn’t clear. Is Ramsey a good player? Yes. Is he a flawed player? Yes. Is he “worth” £200k a week? I can see why a team would pay that. Should Arsenal pay that? I don’t care either way. Is Arsenal to blame for Ramsey running his deal down? Maybe. Maybe not. If they wanted to keep him they could have pulled out all the stops or if they wanted to recoup some investment, they could have sold him. Should they have? I don’t care. Would the player let that any of that happen? We don’t know. Am I sad to see him go? Not really. Does Arsenal already have the players who we need in midfield? I think so. Will they be the next batch of grilled beans? We don’t know. Did I just write 1325 words to say “hey, you know all that stuff about Aaron Ramsey, meh.”? Yes.
The quality of the debate on Twitter around this can drive a man mental. Fans pontificating at great length, that he wasn’t worth X or Y. And entirely missing the point. Which is that we left 35 to 40 million Pounds on the table. Which is bad business.
I’m glad you put Ramsey’s numbers up, because rarely is so much crap, pub analysis made about any player. Sadly, much of it in this forum. There’s no question that he’s been one of the most effective midfielders in the league. The same people who get antsy at criticism of Arsene are the folks all to ready to offer their banalities on a player who was a big part of helping him to end his trophy drought.
He should come out of this with a decent contact elsewhere, but the reports that he wanted to stay appear reliable.
He should blame his agent. He overplayed his hand. Yes, the club was ruthless, and you know, I can’t blame them for looking out for their best interests, sentiment be damned. But deciding to let Ramsey go free after the transfer window shut is bad business, irrespective of who the decision resides with. And it’s a terrible way to treat your longest-serving player.
“But deciding to let Ramsey go free after the transfer window shut is bad business, irrespective of who the decision resides with.”
That’s a leftover of the Wenger era. That mess started last year with Ozil, Sanchez and Oxlade-Chamberlain. I think Wenger was too sentimental and optimistically assumed that they would be easily convinced to stay. In a perfect world, he should have been prepared to get their replacements 2 years before the end of their contracts.
“And it’s a terrible way to treat your longest-serving player.”
Agree. It’s a lack of class from Arsenal. Other big clubs kept their best players even when they were past their prime (Scholes and Giggs at United, Gerrard at Liverpool, Lampard and Terry at Chelsea).
It’s not about keeping the player. It’s a lack of respect to withdraw a contract after it’s been offered
Probably should have sold him in the summer but it seems to me he didn’t want to go. No speculation, no agent talk, no nothing. This is a player who was intent on pressuring the club into offering big money, or leaving on a free in a year. Which is totally rational behavior – why leave and let Arsenal have 30m that could go into your pocket instead?
This.
Do we really have enough English players? I’ve always thought we were getting down to a precariously low number since the English core touted 5-6 years ago collapsed. Are these youngsters really going to be in the team long-term?
2018/19 Homegrown:
Bellerin
Holding
Illiev
Jenkinson
Martinez
Ramsey
Welbeck
Coming through the ranks:
AMN
Nelson
Smith Rowe
Neketiah
Pleguezuelo
Willock
Zelalem
etc. etc.
4-6 names on that list that you can reasonably expect to be in or near the squad in 2 years.
No matter what his form or where he goes, I’ll always have a soft spot for Ramsey. Coming back from that horrific injury (and the idiotic songs celebrating his injury), the FA Cups, those ever so legendary interviews, and a thoroughly decent chap!
But while I’m kind of sad to hear that he’s off this summer, sad to miss out on the cash we should have got for him, I can also appreciate why the contract was withdrawn. Emery can try to give him a sheet of music, but Ramsey will always be a jazz improvisor at heart. Maybe he’ll end up wherever Wenger ends up? I’d like to see that, actually.
Could he end up with Gazidis at AC Milan? I’d also like to see that. Unfortunately, though, we all know we’ll be seeing him in a rival’s shirt next season.
“Given some structure, play him next to an Arteta type, and given strict instructions to play more conservatively”
Tim… I agree with first part of this but not so much with the latter part. Asking Ramsey to play conservatively or in a fixed position is not easy and has been on of his flaws. He has done that on occasions for AW but never consistently enough. Among his five tools, he always choose to pick one instead of do all 5 in some decent role in a game. He is my favorite player and sad to see him go but so was Wenger. We move forward and continue our re-build under Emery.
For me his best fit would be Chelsea! Kante and Jorginho can take his responsibilities and give him a free role. Kovacic is on loan so there is a vacancy in midfield at the end of season. Can continue his life in London. Chelsea can provide him the wage he wants. Also, they can offload Drinkwater and replace him with Ramsey for homegrown criteria. Only red flag is his ability to beat ‘Ross-Resurrected-Barkley’ for a starting position!!!
I absolutely guarantee he would thrive at Man City in the Fernandinho role. Pep would keep him under control and also let him get forward just enough to satisfy his sweet tooth. There’s this weird idea out there that players have “instincts” that are difficult to control. I disagree with that completely, having seen so many players’ careers changed drastically under careful coaching by a well respected manager.
I really want to predict that he will be at Man City next year but something tells me it’s going to be Liverpool who snap him up. Where he’s going to be fantastic.
I like you and your website Tim, but with all due respect, this is one of the craziest opinions I’ve ever heard you express.
If City did want him–which I think is unlikely–there is a zero percent chance that he could play Fernandinho’s role consistently/effectively or that Pep or Rambo would want him to.
If ramsey could play in a conservative deeper role it would truly surprise me. I hope he succeeds wherever he goes except in the games he would play against us!
Hahaha…… What? You know that Fernandinho is the best midfielder in the league. Fernandinho is far more defensively sound and aware. Ramsey doesn’t have football intelligence though. You do not leave a player like Xhaka behind and pursue goals if you have football intelligence. You do not abandon the deeper area and force Ozil to come and do your job for two seasons straight without noticing the impact your game has on the team.
Ramsey is all engine. At City, Fernandinho is the fulcrum of city’s entire play and he is far away as unique a player to Ramsey as any midfielder they have. Ramsey has no playmaking ability, no positional awareness, can’t collect the ball from the defence, can’t dribble, only plays one touch as part of attacking moves I.e. when he is running. He will have to become what he needs alongside him to thrive, he will have to become an Arteta.
I’m sorry but Ramsey could have been great, he simply chose to ignore improving his defensive, passing and tactical attributes. He chose to focus on scoring goals and that’s all he is now. He will be better for whoever signs him, but a Fernandinho? Ramsey is just not good enough to be that.
Pep wouldn’t buy such a careless passer.. Ramsey has been one of the most frustrating players for me.. capable of so much and still making the same mistakes.
His best season he did say that he focused on getting his basics right, then went on to forget that and he just over complicates or plays it out of his hands..
My take of the issue is that Ramsey wanted to stay at Arsenal, but his agent overestimated fan opinion on his client.
After seeing Ozil eating a large chunk of apple pie and Sanchez being offered a similar sized slice to which he turned down (he’s more of a pedigree chum guy) rightly or wrongly team Ramsey demanded o similar size slice.
The problem came during the fall when Gazidis decided to leave,Raul became head honcho and ‘soft touch’ Arsenal hardened and pulled the unsigned contract offer from the negotiation table, rolled it into a blunt and blew smoke into team Ramsey’s collective faces.
This apparent firm and final decision by the club shook up Ramsey who as i said wants to stay. Londons a beautiful city, he’s happy at the club (whom are currently on a upwards curve) and most of all his wife has just given birth to twins. He’s shocked and gutted buy this i think.
He played the long game with the club and came up short. Sh*t happens. His best bet will be to get his head down work his socks off and hope to be Danny Drinkwaters replacement during the off season.
My two cents on something i have zero inside information on.
Ps Tim. A bit off topic but I brought a book at the airport last week on my way to Spain (from England ) and i read the whole book (which consisted of around 400 pages) in two days.
It was called ‘All American Murderer’ about an American footballer by the name of Aaron Hernandez and i was so gripped i started to have withdrawal symptoms whenever i had to put the surreal book down.
As a man who has no knowledge of American football/NFL, who in European football / soccer would Aaron Hernandez have been comparable to in terms of potential and quality?
Random question i know and I’ll understand if you don’t reply ,it’s just that his story was so bizarre and spectacular that i have to ask an American this man and unfortunately your the only American i have access to.
Aaron Hernandez was a good player for the Patriots, not the best at his position for his team but second best. I’d say American Football positions are generally more specialized than soccer ones, so they’re not really comparable positionally.
But I’d say a winger is closest to the position Hernandez played, which was tight end. So imagine a top EPL team that plays two wingers in its formation on a regular basis, and he was the second best one. And the better one is injured a lot.
Good but to really capture how good Hernandez was (at least in potential) it must be stated that this imagined team with two wingers also has two of the best three wingers in the league.
This has got me thinking about who on the current Arsenal squad could I envision committing murder.
I’m going with Petr Cech, not only because he has a perfect cover (by all accounts a responsible family man who enjoys learning new languages, plays music, and wears helmets because it’s the safe thing to do), but also because he’s always reminded me of Peter Stormare, who played a murderer in “Fargo.”
Kola?
100% Cech. The first guy I thought of when I read the first paragraph. I don’t quite get the Peter Stormare parallel, except maybe in how he speaks (?) but he has the perfect cover while still carrying a hint of madness/danger (GK attributes I suppose)
Ozil. Those eyes man. He’d drink the blood too 🙂
Im sure I’ve seen Sokratis in The Godfather. He’s the one fitting some poor guy with cement shoes.
Thanks for the rundown Noble and Wasa!
As for the Arsenal squad i could see Sokraties killing a man, with his bare (or bear) hands.
Maybe Mustafi will be the victim.
Top “Rambos”
1. Fulham this season
2. Scorcheroo volley in Champs League game, v Galatasaray?
4. FA Cup header v Chelsea from Giroud cross
5. (First?) Gunners goal: shimmy and shot v Portsmouth away
Will miss him a lot: he is a brilliant big game player. (But pretty pedestrian against Blackpool last night!).
I admire Ramsey and will be sad to see him go. He’ll always be the guy who scored the goal to end our trophy drought and he seems like a genuine person and a decent guy.
Saying that….
I really hoped he’d be our ‘Fat Frank’, doing a job in midfield and scoring a stupid amount of goals with late runs into the box. It seemed like he had everything needed to be that kind of special player for us. But, while injuries obviously had a huge impact on his time at Arsenal, I don’t think he ever scored enough goals to fully make up for what seemed like a disinterest in what should have been his main duties in midfield. When Lampard scored 20+ goals season after season, there was never a suggestion that he was neglecting his other duties in pursuit of those literal and figurative goals. Maybe it’s unfair to compare Ramsey to Lampard but that’s always been the obvious comparison to me. That’s the player he seemed like. That’s the kind of player he looked like wanting to be. But a lot of the time he only seemed really invested in half the job.
I’m a huge fan of Arsene, but maybe he’s just as much to blame for indulging Ramsey….or at the very least, not insisting on a better balance between the midfield work and the forays forward.
Saying all that, it won’t feel great to see him in another shirt that’s not Arsenal.
How many of Lampard’s goals came from penalties? Serious question.
I actually think Ramsey is better technically than Lampard was. But that was a different era and Lampard was in a dominant team. He also made great use of his gifts of course, and maybe Ramsey hasn’t maximised his. But he’s still only 27. 3-4 more years of good fitness and performances and he could well be remembered as one of the greats (without being ‘world class’ or whatever that means)
Honestly, I think Arsenal are making a mistake letting him go. That sort of production is hard to replace. But I hope Raul, Sven and Unai prove me wrong.
Maybe you’re right Shard. My comparison of Lampard to Ramsey isn’t really based on stats so much as memory. I just remember Lampard as a midfielder who scored a lot of goals from late runs into the box…..like Ramsey likes do…..but for all his goals, there was never a suggestion that he neglected his other duties to get them. And Tim’s stats suggest that Ramsey actually used to do that work, it was part of his game, but then it seemed like he lost interest in it….which is what disappointed me I guess.
Here’s Lampard’s stats anyway.
A better person than me could tell you how they compare to Ramsey….or whether it’s even a fair comparison. I’m not really a stats guy honestly.
Lampard
Appearances
609
Goals
177
Goals per match 0.29
Penalties scored 32
Freekicks scored 5
Shots 832
Shots on target 299
Shooting accuracy % 36%
Hit woodwork 13
Big chances missed 18
Here’s Lampard’s more defensive stats.
Tackles 491
Tackle success % 71%
Blocked shots 252
Interceptions 248
Clearances 306
Headed Clearance 65
Recoveries 986
Duels won 881
Duels lost 807
Successful 50/50s 129
Aerial battles won 64
Aerial battles lost 85
Errors leading to goal 2
Do you think it’s fair to compare Ramsey to Lampard?
Isn’t this, literally, half the story?
Oh I wasn’t saying it’s not a fair comparison. I totally get why you made it.
“What if it was actually £200? What if it was £150? What if it was £100k a week plus an annual £5m bonus?”
Today’s Evening Standard mentioned £170k a week, which is more credible since it’s in line with the wages earned by Aubameyang, Lacazette and Mkhitaryan. I doubt that Ramsey would have asked for more than £200k. And anyway, that’s still a far cry from Ozil’s £350k a week.
“Ramsey is a known quality, we already have plenty of English players, and the club are clearly building around young midfielders like Guendouzi, Torreira, Emile Smith-Rowe, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, and to a lesser extent Reiss Nelson and Alex Iwobi.”
The trouble with those youngsters is that they don’t have Ramsey’s end product. Sure, they might notch more goals and assists than Ramsey in a couple of years, but that’s a gamble. They might as well become the next Denilson, Vela, or Bentley, that is, prospects failing to fulfill their potential.
I don’t care if it was because there was a change in top management, but to withdraw a contract already offered is not the Arsenal way. Sporting justifications can be made either way for this, but this behaviour alone, for our longest serving player, and someone who has given so much to our history, is not what Arsenal are supposed to stand for and is not something I can get behind.
In sporting terms, I suppose I can see how the club may feel they can better spend the money elsewhere. But until they prove it, it remains a huge call. And in any case, to let him go on a free is kind of stupid when we likely could have sold him earlier if we’d made it clear we don’t want him. Instead we made him one of the captains.
Oh and I think he’ll be headed to Chelsea where along with Kante and Jorginho he will form an awesome midfield.
Agree with every single dot, dash and comma of this post.
Strange things abound even after Halloween 🙂
It’ll pass 🙂
Arsene kept Thomas Rosicky in contract employment long past the time when it was advantageous to the club to do so. He did the same with Santi, badly injured and out of contract. He gave Mertesacker job security when well past his prime. Yes, he kept journeymen on higher wages than they’d get elsewhere, but I’m not going to argue to hard with the egalitarian, unionist or fairness ideal. I was a huge critic of Wenger for his last 4 years, but what I loved about him was recognising that his players were human beings. Giroud was allowed to go to Chelsea in January to get playing time to be picked for France. Today he’s a world cup winner, and Chelsea finished above us in the league.
That is the Arsenal I support. Not the club that demonstrates such a stunning lack of class with Aaron Ramsey. A month before its longest-serving player and captain for Wenger’s last game in charge became a father. I wonder if they sent him and his wife a card. Look, folks are going too say Im injecting too much sentiment into business, but you can tell a lot about a company from the it treats its employees. If as the Telegraph reported they settled on 170k, that’s about par with Mhki, and less than Auba and Laca. Bellerin’s next contract is going to land him in that ballpark. Look I said repeatedly sell the guy if he doesnt sign by July, so moving him on is not the issue. It’s how it was eventually done.
BTW, Tim, this is one of your best pieces (Ive said that a lot 🙂 ). Fair, balanced, and very well made argument.
It isn’t even contrary to business because part of the ‘values’ message is also our brand.
Rosicky was a weird one though in that he wanted to leave but the club chose its option to extend one extra year. I think that was Wenger being pragmatic keeping him around as a backup option.
Yes, it’s indeed the manner it was done. If they had presented Ramsey with a deadline to agree a contact and/or sold him before the season started, I would be sad he’s leaving but have no issue with it. This is classless. More a decision made with Barcelona values than Arsenal. And if we’re going down that route now, we better get the victories to back it up. And even then I feel we’d have lost something.
Also, we need to consider how much Emery had to do with it. He was saying he wants to build around Ramsey and named him one of his captains, and now he’s surplus to requirements. Was he simply playing politics then? Or was he overruled by the new sheriff?
Claude
You seem to conveniently leave out the fact that the contract was ON THE TABLE for quite some time,but Ramsey didn’t sign !
The examples you gave were under completely different circumstances.Those players were at the end of their careers,genuinely grateful that they were given new contracts and accepted them graciously (why wouldn’t they ?)
What exactly did you and Shard expect the club to do when an offer was on the table but there was no indication that it would be signed,either from Ramsey or his agent ?
Youre missing the point. Which isn’t end of career (sometimes that strengthens my point, actually). It’s that the club, in those cases, acted with decency. Shard’s right. Values matter.
You’re missing another key point Which is that the unsigned contract was improved upon. They arrived at a mutually agreed figure, Gazidis left, and when it landed in the new bosses’ lap, they pulled it.
one of the main reasons for ramsey’s arsenal demise is arsene wenger. arsene has, what i like to call, his “babies”; players he tends to favor. first, it was henry, then it was fabregas, lastly it was ramsey. with henry, wenger was spot-on. however, with cesc and aaron, he got it wrong; cesc isn’t a 10 and ramsey isn’t as good as wenger wanted to believe he was.
the biggest moment when wenger got it wrong with ramsey was when he gave ramsey the big pay raise. less than a year after the “young britons stunt” where ramsey was one of 5 young brits to sign a 4-year extension, arsenal gave ramsey another contract moving his wages from 50k a week to 130k a week. i get that ramsey was in the midst of a very fine vein of form but ramsey has never been a player worth that money. but he was wenger’s baby and so he got his money along with an inflated opinion of himself.
ramsey’s best qualities were always his athleticism and his intelligence. however, he began buying into all the hype surrounding him which led to him feeling that he needed to be a superstar. while he continued to put up stats, it was often at the expense of the team, which undermined any chances the team had of winning. he never seemed to grasp that but the new leadership does, hence his contract being withdrawn.
bottom line, ramsey isn’t that good of a player that arsenal are going to miss him. he’s just a guy. i rank him below edu and flamini and only slightly above paul merson, jack wilshere, and fran merida. when you compare him to the likes of gilberto, arteta, fabregas, diaby, rosicky, petit, vieira, or hleb, it’s hard to even call ramsey talented, let alone great.
…word around the campfire is that laurent koscielny has been given his marching orders as well.
going back two threads and the discussion about a left back, i remember saying last season, when it was clear that west brom were going down, that arsenal should bring kieran gibbs back. nacho was better than gibbs and the general consensus was that he was only just better than gibbs. however, nacho is miles better than kolasinac. if gibbs is on the same form, it’s safe to say that he, too, would be miles better than kolasinac. but it’s mid season now.
i also liked van aanholt from crystal palace. i know he’s older but, as of last season, was still playing at a very high level. in fairness, i haven’t seen him play at all this season, including the game last weekend.
speaking of crystal palace, i also remember saying that arsenal should try and sign mamadou sahko. i know he fell out with klopp when he was at liverpool but it wasn’t because of his quality. i remember watching him play for france at u17 level and thinking that kid can play. he’s still good and liverpool had to buy van dijk to replace him. wenger could have and should have. not sure that emery can but would you rather play at crystal palace or arsenal? he’s better than mustafi.
“Did I just write 1325 words to say “hey, you know all that stuff about Aaron Ramsey, meh.”? Yes”
That about sums it up for me.
Not sure why but I haven’t felt strongly about any Arsenal player leaving or staying post circa 2006.
Maybe it’s because once you’ve seen something so close to perfection everything else fails to excite,
Kinda like watching the once in a lifetime Jordan era Chicago Bulls.
Or maybe it’s all this other $hit happening in the world that puts football in a proper perspective.
Like sending 15k troops to the border to confront 15 hundred mostly women and children.
For me, it is a sad story.
I really like Ramsey as a player. And I am going to be jealous if he goes to another PL team and envy that team for having him.
I believe that the sadness of the story is due to his agency (if there has been an agreement about the contract that was then on the table, why he has been instructed to wait and what were his agents trying to achieve in the meantime?), but also for me the play of the club is totally incomprehensible. They behave like offended children. I cannot understand how you can have decided that the player is worthy of a contract, and then all of a sudden you say “oops, sorry, wrong judgment”.
There can be two things that happened. One is that Emery has decided that he doesn’t need him. But this doesn’t add up, first of all because Emery is not deciding contracts himself, and second because the most he could do is to say that he will not rely on Ramsey, and out of there the player can take the decision to go, like Wilshere did.
Second possibility, and this is what fits perfectly with the timing of the events, is that the new bosses (one of them or both) have pulled the plug. Maybe they have been against it all along, and only Ivan was insisting of keeping Ramsey, and once he/they got in power, the first thing he/they did is to fix that. Or maybe he/they have been particularly offended by whatever the agency did.
In any case, it is stupid. we might have saved some money from his salary, but we might end up spending more for transfer fees for recruiting a replacement as good, plus ending up paying similar salary.
A lot of the comments I’m reading say something along the lines that we will need to replace Ramsey when he goes with a big transfer. Is that really true though? He does not play in our best XI. He has not even been impactful as a sub or when starting against “lesser” competition. He is not the midfielder we remember from 2014. He is an attacker now, and we have plenty of those.
I don’t understand the “don’t need him” part, after you decide not to sell him. What happened to having a strong squad? Mhki is on very high wages and is not a guaranteed starter, so don’t gimme that. Emery signaled clearly, before the window closed, that he was an important player for him. As Shard pointed out, he also made him one of his captains… from the look of things, arguably third on the taxi rank after Kosc and Cech.
You have the league’s most productive goalscoring midfielder last season. Even if he’s not starting, he provides squad depth, something that’ll be very much an issue in the winter months. He was going to sign a contract even after losing his place, which showed that he was wedded to the team cause and was prepared to fight for his place. When played in his favoured position, he scored or assisted 21 times last season, making him our highest impact player.
It’s not impossible to replace in the market, of course, but it’s not easy either. I said in the summer he should be sold if he doesn’t sign. We have the worst of both worlds. Lazy year we have Alexis sulking and never intending to sign a much more lucrative contract than Ramsey was offered, this year we have a player behaving with much more decency. And we shaft him.
Likely destination Chelsea. Minimal family disruption, better than loanee Kovavic, premiership tested, club can afford free transfer wages. Sarris Chelsea already looking good dark horse bets. Add a worldie striker and Ramsey, and they’re seriously, seriously good.
I will always appreciate what Ramsey did for the team. That said, I think we’re actually a better team when we aren’t trying to shoehorn him into the line-up. I don’t see him as a player who can learn to play differently – it’s been tried. If you suggest that he could become a pivot for City or Chelsea then you are suffering from amnesia because he was only an effective pivot next to Arteta for a single season. Apart from last season, his other great season was the year we parked him on the right in front of rookie Bellerin and allowed him to drift inside.
I don’t think he goes to City, Chelsea, United or Liverpool. Spurs never. I would not be shocked to see him land at Leicester, West Ham or Bournemouth even, a mid-table team where the team would make him the focal point, allow him free license and he’d still get paid whatever it was he was looking for (I’m guessing he wanted 200k a week neighbourhood wages).
I just think it’s pathetic we didn’t sell him in the summer. I like Sanllehi’s talk so far – if a player is on a five year deal, you need to decide what to do with him in year 3, not the end of year 4.
“I just think it’s pathetic we didn’t sell him in the summer. I like Sanllehi’s talk so far – if a player is on a five year deal, you need to decide what to do with him in year 3, not the end of year 4.”
This would be a more fair comment if we weren’t about to undergo a seisimic managerial change over the summer. Emery clearly rated Ramsey prior to the season and gave him a run of games but Aaron just didn’t perform, there are no two ways about it. My reading of the situation is that once Emery had a chance to see Aaron in his system, he talked to the brass and they concluded he would not be worth the type of contract that was on the table. I really think it’s that simple.
As for the fear of him killing us with another club, I don’t see that either. I hear similar things every time a former Arsenal player goes somewhere else. The whole not playing him in his best position trope is also quite common. It’s nonsense. Nobody knows the value of the player and what he can and cannot do better than the club who he plays for. I think they like Ramsey but not for the money he thinks he can get, so they will let him test the market and see what materializes. This happens all the time in pro sport and it’s what smart clubs do. You let the market dictate the value, not the player.
I think a lot of Gooners have similar sentiments about individual players vs The Club, re the post and Tom’s comments: Meh. I am generally blasé with exceptions (Cazorla is a big one – I absolutely love the guy).
We haven’t had a lot of big personalities in recent years and those that are can be absolute wankers. “Victoria, Concordia, Cresit, no “i” in team and all that.
It’s Liverpool tomorrow.. and I FreAging hate georgino win(how the f@*ck do you spell that?)..looked at their possible line-up, the only threat I see is mane! On a good arsenal day with serious energy, we’ve got the Arsenal to nail them to a Redcross! How I hate that team. Speaking of Ramsey, I know he’s a great player but not so great that we’d miss him and go on a run of horrible performances. He’s very much replaceable and that’s it. We’ve got AMN and i think he’d do better at some point and make Ramsey’s departure look like a right move.. COYBG!!
halftime.
Let me say it first and loud. Granit Xhaka has been outstanding. Complete game, defensively and offensively.
But the standout player, on both sides, has been Lucas Torreira. Conducting play, and defending. Arsenal have built that wall, as Trumpsters would say.
Ozil can do more. This is not the game for diffident tackling. Auba bright but ineffective, and Laca’s decision making in front of goal has been missing for a few games now.
Overall, our tackling has been sharp and keen.
Kolasinac has got the biggest job of anybody on the field… Salah. What a baller he is. He caught lightning in a bottle last seaon, and I dont think he’ll ever catch those goalscoring heights again. But he’s superb forward player.
I must say that Xhaka tackle on Salah made me so happy. It was perfect.
Terrific game. My overall impression is that Arsenal have shown they can ball with one of the best teams out there, even if we caught some lucky breaks, and this is the umpteenth time we have come back from a losing position to get something and that says a lot about the mentality of the players as well. I really enjoyed that, great PL game with terrific talent on both sides. I enjoyed the respect Klopp gave us tactically with the conservative play of his fullbacks, and also with the late substitution of Matip to seal the point. Also worth noting we started and finished strongly in this game after several games where we started poorly.
In terms of individuals, I would pick on Mkhitaryan for taking too long on the ball several times, plus he should’ve got that header on target (though he was excellent defensively) and Leno for his poor judgement from set pieces and crosses (though he was excellent on the ball and with reflex saves). I felt Lacazette had a strong game overall and that goal was about his individual talent, the run, the swivel, the technique on the finish. Iwobi also gave us something off the bench while both center backs were good, particularly Holding.
Bro, he was clattered by Allison on that header. Even the pro-Liverpool pundits Alan Shearer and Tim Sherwood thought it was a penalty.
Mhki gave the ball away a lot in the first 20 minutes (I counted 4 unforced turnovers), but grew into the game. By the end, had put in a solid shift.
I had an issue with Emery subbing off Aubameyang, who was playing better than Laca to that point. I’d have yanked Lacazette, and Im not going to play wise after the event because he scored. He was mostly ineffective, but top shelf strikers can do that when not playing well. He’s got to be more direct in build up play and try fewer flicks, tricks and backpasses. Two stray passes of his led to us losing the ball, and Liverpool creating chances.
He also subbed off Kola when he was looking his most dangerous offensively, but that didnt turn out so bad, because Iwobi even at LB brought threat and penetration as well. Kola on his performance today has earned a run in the team, Nacho or no Nacho. So has Rob Holding. Mustafi, credit where due, was good today. Interesting times when Koscielny and Sokratis are fit and again.
I tip my hat, though, to Lucas Torreira and Granit Xhaka. Our midfield ticked today, against the one of the best pressing teams in the league (who had a mini injury crisis in the middle). Hector proved again why he’s such an important player for us.
A wonderful game of football.
BTW, BBC has a goal of the month vote first Saturday of every month. I can’t see past Ramsey v Fulham or Auba’s 2nd v Leicester. In fact, it’ll take a lot to beat either to goal of the season. I like the latter more.
It SHOULD be a penalty but those are never given. Especially with a GK, but even otherwise. How often do we see the striker get absolutely battered after getting a shot off and all’s forgiven. So I’m ok with that not being a penalty.
I think Miki had a tough time but was always switched on defensively and as you say, he grew into the game. He’s just seemingly not a goal threat at all these days, which is a shame.
I knew Auba would be off and not Laca. We have Iwobi and Welbeck as runners but Laca holds up the ball better and is a more natural finisher.
Not sure about Kola as first choice. Initially he was giving Salah a lot of room, but he adjusted. Good to have a fit LB again.
Xhaka-Torreira were great today, as were the two CBs. Mustafi has been mostly very good these past few games and I am just about starting to trust him again. Hopefully this solidity continues. Leno with a couple of disappointing errors today, but was otherwise good, and is so calm with the ball at his feet.
I think it was a nice contest of Year 1 Emeryball vs a mature Klopp built side. Of course they were dangerous at times, but I felt we had greater control in the game, with the exception of about 10 minutes during the first half.
Yes, we had the control for the most part. There was a lot of sterile possession in our own half but that’s not a bad thing as long as you’re not in a losing position. I felt the same way about our progress relative to the opposition and hope that future years bring a similar level of progress as they have done for Liverpool since Klopp first took over there.
Salah kept running off the back of Kolasinac who will need to improve his defensive awareness. I think there’s a potentially really good FB in there and certainly he is already incisive offensively, but the defensive positioning will need to improve as it has (to some extent) for Bellerin, but particularly if he is playing opposite of Bellerin and particularly when he is up against this level of opposition.
I think we saw peak Mustafi today. That’s both a compliment and an indictment. If he plays at this level every game, he is an average CB for a top tier team. Unfortunately I believe that’s his ceiling.
And how’s that for a performance! I can’t believe we balled Liverpool throughout the game..wow! Once again, the magic substitutions worked perfectly well..iwobi gave Liverpool something to think about..xhaqiri I felt would turn the game against us fell right into our pockets.. now I can boldly say, WE ARE BACK! Happy birthday Emery, and thanks for the job done so far..I wish you many years of success!
Anyone else surprised at the lack of high press from Liverpool from the off?
So we’ve played three of the top four thus far and only City outplayed us over the 90 minutes.
Anywhere else on the pitch a player gets clattered into after releasing the ball and refs give a foul except when keepers do it, weird.
The winning run ended but the unbeaten run goes on. Had a total sense of calm when they scored. Knew they couldn’t hold out against our boys at home. It’s becoming more and more obvious why Emery has been racking up trophies over the last 5 seasons. Our positioning off the ball, the way we become so lethal when our backs are up against the wall, the rejuvenation of so many players. So many encouraging signs so I’m not gonna criticise any individuals.
Since we passed up the chance to sell Ramsey and reinvest the fee, I don’t much care what happens with him or where he ends up. If we can recover from losing Alexis, we can recover from losing every single player in the squad except our alien princeling from Gelsenkirchen.
Tough but excellent decision by the club to rescind the contract offer – that said, here’s hoping Rambo has a grand farewell campaign.
Reiss Nelson just can’t stop scoring.. what’s going on?
People say that we’ve got our Arsenal back.
Today, I say thank goodness we got our FBs back.
Everybody on this team today pulled their pants up and put in a shift that brought tears to my eyes. I cannot fault anyone because by the end Pool knew they’d been in a war. We started out strong and quick and didn’t let up for 90″.
Fabinho resorted to rotational fouling all on his own just to keep up with our MFs. Kolasinac bullied Salah in his usual fashion. Holding’s performance today put Firmino’s picture on a milk carton. Leno never got caught out by their press.
Xhaka was immense today as was Torreira. The Iwobi substitution really rocked their right side defense which was already being battered. There are just too many superlatives to pick out from this game from the manager to the players to the ball people. Wow.
A draw is a fair result in the end.
That strike from Lacazette was a dagger to Pool’s heart and I thought we looked the more likely team to get a winner at the end rather than shutting up shop like Pool did when they brought on Matip.
The cat is definitely out of the bag now that Arsenal is back, are for real and your team should be very very afraid when they come for you.