Drive slow, it’s better for you!

I drove 180 miles last week and while I was driving I did a little math to keep my mind occupied. What I figured out is that unless you’re driving hundreds of miles or going way over the speed limit, you really don’t save much time by speeding!

180 miles at 60 miles per hour is 3 hours. 180 miles at 65 miles per hour saves just 14 minutes of total drive time! And driving 70 miles per hour saves just 26 minutes. Most of us drive less than that on an average day and I’d be willing to bet most of us go over the speed limit by at least 5 mph. But anything under 10 miles, while driving at city speeds, doesn’t save much time. And if you take the freeway for short trips, driving over the speed limit is literally pointless.

I just thought you should all know. Slow down, especially on short trips.

Have a great day!

Qq

(I loled that Germany lost to the worst team in the World Cup. Ozil was joint leader among all players in key passes with 11.)

90 comments

  1. Plus you won’t get tickets. Mind you, I regularly go between 5-10 mph over the speed limit and have never been pulled over. Probably something to do with driving a family minivan…

    Said what I wanted to say about Germany in the previous thread, but should add how royally this messes up my pre-tournament predictions. I had them in the final v France! But having watched all three of their games, I’m honestly delighted they got dumped out, for the sole reason that I don’t have to watch any more of their insipidness.

  2. Oh, and because the Ozil pile-on is just so utterly predictable, I think it’s important to say he was actually one of the few Germans who showed up today. The American commentators noticed it, but [shock!!!] the British commentators are trotting out the familiar lines. Brainless.

    1. Yep. Brainless is the word.

      Of course I don’t think ill of human beings who are genuinely just stupid because their brains can’t compute stuff very well, e.g. struggling in school, struggling to do math problems, etc (no doubt super smart people think of me the way I think of genuinely mentally challenged people), but I have to say…

      The kind of stupidity that allows extremely-well-paid ex-professional football “experts” to watch a match and just see exactly what they want to see every time, rather than what in fact happened–to the point that I can PREDICT what they’re going to say before they say it, no matter the circumstances–fills me with rage and utter, utter contempt for such people.

      Imagine doing your job to an imperfect (of course) but nevertheless very high standard 95% of the time, say, and yet strangers on TV and in the press constantly telling anyone who will listen in the general public that you’ve actually been doing a crap job, and blaming you personally for a very large amount of your employer’s problems. This is what Mesut Ozil has to deal with on a regular basis (the 350k a week no doubt helps, mind).

      (Though of course the above comment about stupid, blind pundits applies well, well beyond just MO.)

      1. I thought Khedira was mostly awful.

        And lest we’re tempted to latch onto the easy narrative that this German team is too dependent on past-it players who need to make way for the young guns (somewhat true), I’d just point out that none of Werner, Kimmich, or Goretzka showed up today; they all looked like the pressure got to them. The first two in particular were terrible, incredibly wasteful on the ball.

        And Low’s Wenger-esque decision to bring on Muller (been average for ages now) for midfielder Goretzka instead of Werner (whose whole game is based on speed on the counter), left the team terribly unbalanced for the last 20 minutes, with too many forwards on the pitch and Ozil and Kroos stuck having to do all the ferrying. That world class, successful coaches, and supposedly smart men, like Low and Wenger, can fail to spot that when you’re chasing a game you do NOT put on all your forwards at the expense of your midfield, because then you won’t be able to control the ball to keep the pressure consistently on your opponent, is staggering to me. More than anything else you’re competing against the clock when chasing the game late on, and every time you lose possession the opposition gets a chance to waste time and run down that clock. You score late goals by being able to control the ball so you can control the clock. When desperate you might have to sling in crosses to the big man, sure, but in that case, it’s imperative that you set your team up to maximize the chance that you’ll immediately win the ball back after your opponent’s clearances. A midfield duo of Ozil and Kroos (with fb’s high up the pitch) does not do that, besides also forcing your two most creative players to play too far from the final third where they can affect the game by creating chances.

        Overall, Low has gone down in my estimation in this World Cup. It’s obvious he didn’t have a clue what his best lineup/formation was, and he mismanaged his squad terribly, putting out an awful lineup against Mexico, then making too many knee jerk changes after each game.

        1. Agree with both comments, P.

          As I said in the previous thread, it appears Low erred in picking some players on reputation instead of form. I heard Kimmich had a poor season at Bayern, Neuer hadn’t played since September (his rustiness showed, imo), Muller has been average this season, and…the Sane omission is just weird.

          I put the blame on Low.

          Anyway, glad to have Ozil back in time for pre-season. Instead of the hapless Werner, he’ll have Aubameyang on the end of those passes!

        2. I know a coach who could take over for Low. Speaks fluent German, has Alsatian heritage, credits his study of German football when he was young manager for influencing much of his managerial ideas. Loves Ozil. Just sayin’.

  3. Just here to voice some Ozil support.

    I wonder if the fact that he was back for today’s ‘must win’ game suggests that, contrary to the predictable press criticism after the last game, he was left out of the second game because of injury and not in fact dropped.

  4. I think Egypt are a decent shout for the actual worst team at the World Cup, and maybe Costa Rica. Korea showed enough against Mexico, for instance, that I really don’t think they’re the worst. Which is not to say Germany’s implosion hasn’t been hilarious…

    1. I’d agree with that. Egypt were terrible.

      Great day for South Korea, even if I did enjoy seeing Tottenham’s Son booked for diving! I’m a sad git.

  5. Worst? Panama. Great country, lovely people, crap football team. How bad was USA to finish CONCACAF qualifying behind that lot?

    And wth was up with Mexico today?

  6. FWIW, 538 is rating Saudi Arabia as the worst team in the World Cup, followed by Egypt and then South Korea.

  7. Impressed with Sweden but especially Croatia.
    If you can replace 9 players and still beat the well organized Iceland then you’ve got depth.
    Modric, Rakitic and Perisic are probably the best midfield of the tournament.

    Germany was shocking and probably should’ve lost to Sweden too, if not for the merciful ref decision not to award the pen on Boateng and a possible red card for his challenge on Berg.

    My Poland has been predictably poor. I know some picked them to top the group because of their “impressive “qualifiers, but if one had paid attention to the quality of their opponents they would’ve known better.
    At this level you need more than just one or two quality players to achieve something.

    1. I was going to ask the group here which teams actually stood out or surprised you. There seem to be only a few really convincing teams so far. Croatia has surprised me. I had Sweden going out in the group stages, but they’ve looked terrific as a team. England I expected to waltz through what is essentially a two-team group, though if they can build confidence from that, I could see them going far.

      I was looking for more dazzle from France and Brazil, but while they’ve gotten the job done, they don’t look great right now. Uruguay also look functional, but their scorelines fail to communicate (to me) how dull they played.

      1. Croatia for me (possibly additionally as I’m Nigerian). I’m not shocked we lost to them as they have a superior midfield to many of the qualified teams and we most certainly don’t, but they’ve been more authoritative than I expected. I also didn’t expect too much from Morocco, who were actually the better team in at least 2 of their 3 games and sadly depart with a single point.

      2. colombia! they are the team. nobody wants to play them. they played against japan with ten men for 87 minutes and dominated the game. they absolutely embarrassed poland. they play senegal tomorrow and i can’t wait to be thoroughly entertained by the two fittest teams at the world cup.

      3. Croatia’s engine room are the heart of Barcelona and Real’s. Rakitic and Modric are two of the best midfielders in the world. From a shaky defender, Klopp has turned Lovren into a very good one.

        My pick of the unfancied teams was Iran. They beat Morocco, ran Spain close, were terrific against Portugal, and almost won it at the death. Fit, fearless, tactically well-drilled, and with a degree of technical proficiency that surprised me. They left everything on the pitch against Ronaldo and co.

        In 2018, everybody — EVERYBODY — is playing it out calmly from the back. But unfortunately, no one except the world order, except South Korea when it was too late.

        Superb world cup. Cant take my eyes off it. My productivity is totally screwed.

      4. Not exactly surprising, at least not after the Euros, but honestly, Iceland has to stand out. If a nation that small can put together a squad that actually competes that well, then anyone can do it if they want to. Looking forward to a deep Fijian run in 2026.

  8. Timo Werner is the worst ‘football power’ No. 9 Ive seen in the tournament, and a good shout for the worst No. 9 overall. He puts away a quarter of his chances over the 3 games and Germany are through. Maybe Im looking at this through gooner goggles, but Low treated Ozil harshly, leaving him out against Sweden. And today, he worked tirelessly and should have had two assists. British media and football fans (and even German ones) are piling on. It’s so unfair.

    I dont care how many magic midfielders you have… if you dont have a world class forward capable of getting you something out of very little or nothing, you’re going nowhere. Germany have Werner and Gomez. Everybody please look again at Messi’s goal in slow motion. It was a very, very difficult piece of skill ….take, touch, control, shoot — at an angle and on his chocolate leg — without breaking stride. I dont think that wondrousness of that strike has been properly appreciated. Argentina are going home without that.

    Ozil’s cross to Hummels was a more routine almost-assist than Banega’s actual assist to Messi. World class finishing. That’s the difference. Messi, Ronaldo, Kane. All have had decisive interventions, despite England having an easy time of it (youd be forgiven for believing that the WC draw was done by Gareth Southgate), and despite penalties adding to Kane’s total.

    Draxler, their left winger, didnt turn up in the first two games, and was dropped today.

    Muller, as PFo correctly said, has been poor for months — certainly for Bayern for the longest while now.

    Before the game had finished, a sports writer friend wrote on Facebook… Mexico has had one bad game, Germany has had three. Who do you think deserves to go through? The question answers itself.

    And here’s a surprise, and something I never thought Id say about Germany. They were tactically incoherent, except for a dominant spell in the second half against Sweden, where they should have scored three.

  9. Brilliant to have the statistical back up for the driving. Not sure whether that or the Kanye West song is more likely to to impress my recently qualified son but I will send them both.
    Lol Germany. Lol we didn’t appoint Joachim Low.

  10. tim, you sound like an old man. “drive slow, it’s better for you!” what!? are you serious? (insert emoji with tears of laughter).

    when i was 16, i liked rap music, girls with big boobs, and fast cars. fast forward 30 years and i still like some rap but i don’t know what those kids are saying half the time. but i definitely have love for boobies and fast cars. all of my cars are german-made and they’re all very fast.

    i drive faster than some people because i enjoy driving, not because i’m in a hurry. is it a drain on the fuel consumption? a little, but i’m a fairly efficient driver. my porsche has 160k miles and i’m just getting the brakes replaced for the first time in the next month or so. likewise, i’m not unsafe; i’m not one of those dumbass kids that swerve in and out of traffic, continually switching lanes, driving too close, etc.

    driving fast is not unsafe to me but i do respect other drivers who may be spooked. i lived in germany for over 6 years and did speeds in excess of 120mph going to work every morning. i haven’t been cited for speeding since 1994 and i’ve never been at fault for a motor vehicle accident. now, watch me go out and get a speeding ticket tomorrow.

    agreed, though. speeding is not the way to go if you’re in a hurry. it won’t make much difference. your more likely to be even later because you’ve been stopped by police.

    1. “all of my cars”

      “my porsche”

      Yeah, that, uh, that caught my eye. Damn, Joshua, we have very different lives…

      Ok, ok, but I bet you haven’t read Aristotle’s “Nicomachean Ethics,” Milton’s “Paradise Lost,” Virgil’s “Aeneid,” and Augustine’s “City of God”…right? RIGHT? Because if you can canon-signal AND cash-signal at the same time, I’ll hate you forever. As I cling to my bookshelf, I have to tell myself, yeah, no, really, it was worth it to pursue life as an intellectual.

      Ah, who am I kidding? Even if I had wanted to, I don’t have a mind for making the big bucks. Finance, investing, business, family wealth, entrepreneurship, etc., I either don’t have it or don’t have the interest. Good for you, though.

      1. oh, bun. that sounds bad when you say it.

        when i say “all of my cars” i mean all of the cars that i’ve purchased over the past 15 or so years. i have 3 cars now; my car, my wife’s car, and we have an suv but their all german and all very fast cars.

        the porsche, i bought from this older gentleman who lives on hilton head island. he bought it for his wife but she never drove it. the car was 4 years old and only had 14k miles on it. he sold it to me for super-cheap. i’m not rich but he is.

        i took 3 semesters of philosophy and could’ve read every book you listed but i wouldn’t remember. i just showed up one day and, by the grace of God, the classes were done. btw, i’m certain all of those guys i read were on another level of smart than i’ve ever been; either that or they were all on weed when they were righting.

        1. They’re an another level of smart than I’ve ever been (or will ever be) also! Hey, I was kidding around. If you’ve done well for yourself, good for you! It sounds like you enjoy life, and more power to you. I was just inhabiting for fun the cliche of the non-rich in a capitalistic society (i.e., we cling to other values to affirm our own sense of self worth, sometimes justifiably, but rarely with dignity if insistently).

  11. Germany really needed Klinsmann running their show.
    Özil laid on gilt edge chances that were wasted by his woeful teammates. He did his job and his teammates did not. Kroos was especially poor as was Muller and Khedira. The WC is not a tournament for sentimentality (or old men) and so Germany could have used a Sane to inject some pace into their methodical attack.
    Sweden can now say to Germany that karma is a bitch but they are too classy for that, so I will.
    Costa Rica picked their last game to finally show up and who was one of their most dynamic players, Joel Campbell of course.
    I like Xhaka but he can’t defend for shite and that’s why Switzerland pairs him with Behrami. Expect to now see Torreira and/or Banega in that similar destroyer role alongside Xhaka. Offensively I’m really excited about either pairing because they can all make key passes. For those Carvalho fanboys, there is a great video of how Iran man marked him out of the game and broke up Portugal’s attacking rhythm. Similar to what teams began to do to Arteta to stop our attack.
    Tim’s Drmic got a goal to put Switzerland up 2-1 and then they subbed Behrami and the Swiss clock’s spring unwound with Zakaria his replacement giving a clumsy PK.
    I would have to say that Spain has looked the best of the usual suspect favorites to this point.
    I will not cry for Lionel Messi.
    Pele is an example of a classy, dignified sportsman in retirement while Maradona should neither be seen or heard from in his retirement.
    I would like Senegal to win so that one African nation can get over the hump.
    Poland has been dreadful and Japan should win.
    With players being rested, who cares about England v. Belgium although I would like Belgium to win.
    France v. Argentina will be the time to see if France will put on their big boy pants.
    For me, Godin has to be the best defender I’ve seen going back to the Europa League matches.
    Ironic that Barcelona replace Neymar with Coutinho and the best player for Brazil is Coutinho.

  12. germany’s been crap and that comes down to approach play or strategy. approach play is directed by the management team/coaching staff.

    first, does anybody remember the german right back, joshua kimmich, play any defense? this is a defender and the only thing he did all tournament was play as a wide striker. on the first goal germany conceded against mexico, who was back in the right back’s position defending chuckie? mesut ozil. mesut and kroos were expected to drop in and help in the back on the counter. who thought that was a good idea? how about those fullbacks who are the best 1v1 defenders on the team? btw, no way kimmich is lahm. not yet but he’s still young. that young man needed better direction from the coaching staff.

    timo werner plays striker for his club team, which is a very counter-attacking team but löw has asked him to play as a center forward. we’ve talked at great length on this forum about the difference between a striker and a center forward. this is the youngest player on the team who has zero experience playing center forward. why would you subject him to that at a world cup? i think the criticism directed at werner is unfair. it reminds me of an 18-year old wayne rooney being asked to lead the line on his own in euro 2004; a talented kid completely out of his element and outclassed by experienced international defenders. it was like skiing uphill for rooney.

    low should have played mario gomez from the start and brought on werner after germany took a lead. at that point, teams are looking to get back into the game and he’d have has space to counter, which is what he’s good at. or, löw could have made muller play center forward. to ask your least experienced player to play an unfamiliar role in the world cup is a poor use of resources. germany should have gone with gomez as long as opponents were packing the box.

    is werner better than gomez? yes. is he a better center forward than gomez? nope. we had a similar discussion when comparing giroud and lacazette. the difference is everyone arsenal plays doesn’t pack the defense like everyone did against germany. another difference is lacazette has years of experience playing center forward where werner has none. another difference is lacazette didn’t just turn 22. the last difference is this was the world cup: big pressure.

    1. Werner missed a LOT of presentable chances over 3 games. That’s not positional or tactical. That’s skill and temperament in front of goal.

      1. agreed but he’s only just turned 22. it takes a special young man to perform out of his natural position and under the pressure of expectation from traditionally great footballing nation. playing out of position and with guys you’re not intimately familiar with their game is like switching from a left-hand drive car to a right-hand drive. it shouldn’t be much different but it can be for some. it’s especially rough when you’re such a young man on a huge stage and your team needs you to score.

        clearly, he’s not klose, klinsmann, bierhoff, völler, or gerhard müller…..well, not yet.

      2. we know this kid can score goals. it seems the stage was a bit much. his time is coming.

        1. Tim tweeted the following WC stats…

          11 – Ozil, Kimmich, and al Faraj lead all players with 11 key passes
          10 – Muller also has 10 key passes
          57 – Germany created more chances than any other team so far in the World Cup with 57 key passes, 20 more than 2nd place Mexico!

          Must have been frustrating to Ozil to see Werner miss so much, end up with zero goals, and he, Mesut, gets made the scapegoat. Werner’s link play is decent, but he was really bad in front of goal, Josh. Really bad. But hey, if you say he’s got something, I respect your assessment. I saw him for the first time these past 2 weeks.

          1. agree with pfo, he just had a bad tournament. he balled out of his mind for rb leipzig, scoring a boat load of goals two seasons ago as a 20 year old. rumor had him linked with a move to arsenal before lacazette came in.

            pfo, maybe rooney had the nightmare in the ’06 world cup. it was either euro ’04 or germany ’06 but i know he was very young, expected to do too much, and given no help from the coaching staff. luckily, rooney bounced back but a poor performance on a big stage like the world cup could kill a career for a youngster. hopefully, werner bounces back.

            my whole point is that he shouldn’t get the lion’s share of the blame. young players are inconsistent; it’s what they do. the manager needs to hold his hand up and own his management decisions.

        2. 1. No disrespect to Werner, who is obviously a talent. I just felt he didn’t play well, and should probably have been subbed off in the second half, but that’s probably mostly not his fault.

          2. I recall Rooney being bloody brilliant in 2004. Certainly better than Werner today…

          3. Otherwise completely agree with what you say. Like I said above, Low has gone down in my estimation. The team was a mess. Then again, if his players had converted even one of their chances today (to take just two examples: Hummels’s header and Gomez’s whiff), they would be through, and few would be betting against them getting better as the tournament goes on (no way Korea scores those late goals if Germany scores first). Fine margins.

          1. I think Germany has really missed the experience and leadership of both Schweinsteiger and Lahm. The team has not been the same since those two left. Unfortunately a bunch of their players decided to have a collective stink fest at exactly the wrong moment. Werner, Hummels (when presented with 3 gilt edged chances) and Goretzka were just awful yesterday. I thought Ozil had a decent game, despite taking so much of the post-game heat. I agree with Joshuad that giving Werner the start in this tournament was probably not the best idea. My choice would have been Muller. I would have also started Brandt instead of Reus who had done nothing in every outing so far this tourney. I can only hope that this world cup will make Ozil more determined to do better in the league. We will see what he is made of.

  13. Love the drive advice. And you’re right — you dont save that much time. Driving fast, in a well planted car feels great… it did for me, regularly at 100 kph (the speed limit in Trinidad) until a drunk driver did an undertake at speed (on the inside lane) and our cars bounced off each other. He sort of shoulder charged me, coming up VERY very fast from behind, on the passenger side. The Civic took it much better than I expected, but having another car hit you at speed is unnerving, even if it’s a glancing blow.

    I made the decision then that I want to see my one and only daughter get married, and that 75 is a good enough cruising speed. If the worst should happen, I have more reaction time. Heck, I even squeeze in an extra song or two on the radio. Oh by the way, a solid half the cars on the motorway are doing 130 to 140. Traffic cops? Youre joking, right?

    Commute is 25km, so not so bad.

  14. Try driving in India. All your statistics have no power here. The rules are suggestions, nobody follows lanes, and they will lead you straight into the dividers anyway, and the only thing the cops do is wait to catch you going 1km over an arbitrary speed limit after a huge, chaotic traffic jam that you’ve spent 20 mins in.

    And if you’re on the highways, look out for tractors driving the wrong way with no lights or reflectors even in the dark, animals being driven across the road, or some kid, or even grown men, deciding to play real life frogger.

    Not even kidding.

    It’s a hugely stressful experience.

    The fastest I’ve ever driven is 140km/h. And that felt good, but constantly watching out for such traffic makes it not worth the while.

  15. That must be fun, Shard.

    Joshua, I’m with you on pleasures of boobies and driving fast.
    I just hope Jack doesn’t chime in with some horror tail and consequences of boobie love , like he did In the case of Claude’s jokingly suggesting extramarital affairs are a way to go when on vacation ha ha.

    Here’s a true and funny speeding story if anyone’s interested
    My love for 911s goes back some 30 years and I’ve had three.
    A friend of mine , who’s a very competitive guy bough his first 911 because he liked the look and the way it drove.
    His had to be faster and better than mine of course so he went the next step up and got himself a 911 c4s. Just a gorgeous car , in a rare dark blue color.

    One day we were going for lunch in his barely one year old Porsche when a guy in a Vette pulled up next to us at a light , and when the light changed green my friend Paul , predictably, got his doors blown off by the Vette.
    Things like cc’s and low end torque are abstract to Paul of course.

    “I didn’t spend 90k to have a Chevy leave me in his dust “ said Paul because he’s a bit of a snob, so next day he asked me to come with him to a Porsche dealer.

    There was only one faster car in the showroom than his- a twin turbo 911, so he obviously took it for a test drive,
    Some 30 minutes later he pulled into the dealership followed by two police cruisers and the pale faced salesman who went with him quickly disappeared into the manager’s office.

    Turns out Paul was doing 187 on a two lane highway and the cop who clocked his speed didn’t even bother chasing after him and simp,y sent his buddies straight to the dealer.

    9k in court and attorneys fees was the outcome and he didn’t even get a good deal on the new car.

    1. tom, hilarious! please tell me the 187 you were talking about is in kph, not mph. i’ve done 187k’s routinely on the autobahn but i’ve never driven 187 mph on the track or on the autobahn. that’s terrifying! most porsches will likely never beat a proper muscle car, like a high-end corvette, in a drag race. porsche makes it’s money when the curves appear. those cars are amazing. i’ll simply say that the limits of a porsche exceed my limits as a driver.

      shard, i’ve never been to india but it sounds an awful lot like driving in pakistan or thailand. strangely enough, it also sounds like driving in paris. the french are awful drivers and don’t give a damn about your car or even pretending to follow driving laws.

    2. So wait…. Jack’s prissy huffiness at my reference to holiday romance was because you and he thought that I was talking about extramarital affairs? I wasn’t. At all.

      Newsflash. Not everyone is over 30 and married.

      News update. Holiday romances are very common. Heck, just travel to Jamaica (or Ibiza, or Warsaw or Kiev) and take a look around some time.

      1. Good point Claude.
        Still I thought it was hilarious the way he reacted regardless ones marital status.

        1. I do go on holiday with the missus. And she keeps turning off the air conditioning when I leave the room. But that’s not cause to go beach bumming 🙂

  16. I thought France v Denmark was bad, but this Senegal v Colombia tops that as one of the worst games I’ve seen at this WC. Such poor quality all around.

    1. England are playing the winners or runners-up from this weird group. After drawing Tunisia and Panana in their group. Germany are gone, one of France and Argentina will be. Talk about a lucky draw.

      1. Colombia and Japan go through. I mean, both are poor, but England and Belgium might want to avoid Colombia, so there will be incentive in their match…mind you, finishing second means you might avoid a potential QF with Brazil…incentive to lose, incentive to win!

        Going out on fair play (Senegal) sucks, but I guess it’s better than drawing lots.

    1. ahhh, brandt.

      an aside: julian brandt is about 5 weeks younger than timo werner so my claim that werner was the baby is not completely true.

      mensch. those boys are younger than my daughter.

    2. Has looked, in this tournament, better than Draxle.r. Can understand why Low wanted him. Sane was a no brainer.

  17. Too bad for Senegal and African teams in general.
    Apparently a single extra yellow card was the reason Senegal got dumped in favor of Japan.
    Wow.

    1. 2 yellow cards & Senegal got both during injury time against Japan. So unnecessary. That’s gotta hurt.

  18. The decision to let Japan thru because they gave away 1 less yellow card than Senegal is ridiculous.

    I do not have a preference as to which country went through, but to decide it on the subjective and rather speciously awarded yellow cards is so dreadful for all the Senegalese ( and no doubt other African fans) who put so much effort and pride into playing in the WC.

    But …. with FIFA in charge …… why am I so surprised?

    1. I think it is frustrating, but it’s better than drawing lots, which is what would have happened to Senegal and Japan if this was played at the last WC. I guess one alternative would be to have a playoff, but that would unnecessarily and unfairly exhaust the winner who would, presumably, face a more rested team in the R16.

      The cards are in a way subjective, but at least require judgment instead of a simple lottery. Actually, I thought Senegal got away with a number of card-worthy fouls today, so the refs subjectivity, if anything, might have benefited them in this regard.

      Gutted for their fans, though. They were awesome.

      1. I agree that a playoff isn’t feasible & i think drawing of lots is even worse than yellow cards but they were tied on the first 5 tiebreakers!
        Points (4), goal differential (0), goals scored (4), and the head-to-head tiebreaker (draw). It brought in the sixth of seven group tiebreakers, which is “fair play,” 7th being the draw. Japan had 2 less, not 1.
        I was following the guardian live blog during the game & somebody suggested shots on target instead of yellow cards as the next tie breaker in line which i thought was a good shout & would reward positive play at least (the last 10 mins of the Japan-Poland game was a fucking disgrace & an embarrassment to the idea of competitive sport but then again, I can’t really blame Japan who took a calculated risk that Senegal wouldn’t get the goal to put them out).
        Can anybody else think of another less subjective tie breaker 6th down the line?

      2. I agree that a playoff isn’t feasible & i think drawing of lots is even worse than yellow cards but they were tied on the first 5 tiebreakers!
        Points (4), goal differential (0), goals scored (4), and the head-to-head tiebreaker (draw). It brought in the sixth of seven group tiebreakers, which is “fair play,” 7th being the draw. Japan had 2 less, not 1.
        I was following the guardian live blog during the game & somebody suggested shots on target instead of yellow cards as the next tie breaker in line which i thought was a good shout & would reward positive play at least (the last 10 mins of the Japan-Poland game was a f*cking disgrace & an embarrassment to the idea of competitive sport but then again, I can’t really blame Japan who took a calculated risk that Senegal wouldn’t get the goal to put them out).

        1. Forgot to ask…anybody have any ideas on what would be a less subjective & fairer tiebreaker 6th down the line?

        2. Shots on goal isn’t a bad idea, but does also invite subjectivity in terms of what counts as a shot. Perhaps one reason I’m not averse to the fair play factor here is that it acts as a disincentive to the kind of “let them know you’re there” brutality I’ve seen excused (and even praised) in PL football for many years.

          1. How about a penalty shootout instead? Wouldnt exhaust the players as much for their R16 game?

    2. that was an awful yellow card senegal received today.

      bottom line, senegal and colombia deserved to go through. the game was a bit underwhelming as senegal was playing exclusively to keep colombia from scoring but a set piece…….

      senegal have themselves to blame. they should have beaten japan and could have easily beaten colombia if they didn’t over-think it, strategically.

      btw, did anyone notice the senegalese player on the post when colombia scored. he was, literally, leaning on the post, not at the ready, when the corner came in. he might have made a play on that ball but all of his weight was not on his toes but on that post. if i ever saw a player doing that, he would not only be subbed but i wouldn’t even let him sit on the bench; he’d sit on the ground. i’m old school like that.

      1. I thought Mane was awful and Senegal really did have themselves to blame. How many free kicks did they have today? Half a dozen? I don’t recall any of them even remotely threatening Ospina. They dominated that first half & were so wasteful.

    3. What do you propose instead, when two teams are deadlocked by every measure?

        1. Well I could resort to flippancy an spin a coin — at least it would be just pure chance, rather than trying to pretend there is some mathematical justification for eliminating a team who tried and did not dance the Polka with Poland.

          But truthfully I do not have an easy answer — I would have hoped the guys being paid $millions by FIFA would try bit harder to come up with a more equitable solution.

        2. Incidentally, what if Japan and Senegal were tied on yellow cards?

          What is the next step? Do you know? Presumably there would be another ‘measure’ despite what you say — a spin of the coin, maybe? Oops no — I have already suggested that.

          1. It’s not ideal. But if you havent clearly separated yourself on all of the playing criteria, I find it hard to feel that sorry for you or outraged about the process.

            They’re playing a thousand miles apart in the deciders, in the case of the 2 teams. How do you toss a coin? by TV? Where do you toss it?

            I’d have preferred Senegal to go through.

          2. 6th tiebreak is fair play. 7th is the drawing of lots (your coin flip).

            At a local hotel, the president of the Malian football federation, Baba Diarra, and the financial director of Guinea’s sports ministry, Amara Dabo, faced a bowl with two balls in it and were asked to choose one each.
            Mali went first and found in its ball a number three, indicating that they would come third in the group and be eliminated. The other ball had a two in it.
            https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-44643088

            I can see why Fifa introduced fair play ahead of this method. Were talking about the 6th & 7th tiebreaker here. You have to decide somehow. I mention earlier maybe shots on target (shots saved) that at least rewards positive play & good goalkeeping but as Bun mentioned above that also invites subjectivity.

          3. Interesting, Simon.

            Another thing. Fair play is related to what happened on the field of play during group qualifying. A coin toss is not.

  19. I did the same math back when I used to have a 25 mile commute. This is what annoys me about the people who insist on speeding in those speed restricted zones on the M25 / M3 / M1 etc. Just stick cruise control on and chill!

  20. How about a shoot out to decide who goes through? No?? Seems fairer than fair play, shots on goal and drawing lots.

    Besides it directly involves the two parties who are tied and their fate on their palmps.

    1. USA 2026….

      USA played in Seattle, Nigeria played in New York. At the end of qualifying, there’s nothing separating them, similar to Japan and Senegal, for the last qualifying place in the group.

      2nd place that group plays 1st place Group H in 5 days in Mexico City.

      Walk us through a shootout scenario between USA and Nigeria

      1. Thing you seem to be forgetting, in other words, is that the two affected teams are both playing other opponents in places that are far apart.

  21. when colombia did take the lead, senegal really turned it up. guess who kept colombia in the game?

    ooooooooooooooooooospinaaaaa! that’s right. the former arsenal goal keeper.

  22. Hmmmm…
    How about they both play the shootout in a city closest to seattle and NY.
    How long would it take? Whatever they do in the shootout is on them, besides this takes the blame from Fifa and on them.

    PS
    I don’t know long it takes to get to Seattle from NY and vice versa .

    1. I see a few problems with this idea. You’d have to give the team enough time to rest and prepare, which includes travel time to that shared destination and then to the destination of the R16 game for the shootout winner (again, with enough time to settle into a hotel, prepare). So you put the tournament on hold for a few days just to accommodate a 10-minute shootout, all the while the potential R16 opponent waiting for the outcome has the luxury of a single travel day and more time to prepare? I’d rather go with what has happened in the actual games of the group stage. I agree with the person above (claude?) who said that if they haven’t done enough in the games to distinguish themselves from the rest of the pack in terms of results, then they leave themselves open to other deciding factors, with the drawing of lots the last and least desirable.

  23. BUN
    Look am not disputing anything you and Claude said, Senegal and Japan ended their last group game on the same day how about meeting at an agreed venue for a shootout that same day or perhaps the following day. How long is it gonna take, besides these happens rarely so proper preparations should be in place to take them to and fro(private jets).
    Why should they settle in a hotel again and prepare for what again, thats on them. Maybe if they have won more matches and outscored their opponent, they won’t have to go through that stress.

    I bet Senegal would love a shootout now likewise Japan if they hadn’t qualify.
    And i doubt neither would worry about the stress that follows if it means going through resides on their terms and not fair play or luck.

    1. If we’re deciding on what do for a 6th decision factor, and it’s between fair play and flying two teams to another destination for a shootout, and then flying them on to the R16 venue, I’m with fair play, not just because of the feasibility issue, but also because fair play is based on what actually occurs in the group games, and reflects (imperfectly, of course, like so many other things in sport) how well a team followed the rules and spirit of the sport in those games.

  24. Or… How about having a smaller goal post that doesn’t need a goal keeper,the tied teams would have to shoot at it from maybe the halfway line until a winner is decided.

    This doesn’t require travelling or lodging because it should be done some minutes after the final whistle at their respective venues.

    It would be fun to watch.

  25. Or maybe the should try hitting the crossbar/post, corner flag from the halfway line or so after their matches.
    Or maybe am just overthinking this.

  26. The outrage over the fair play tiebreaker is outrageous. I am outraged!

    But seriously, we had this discussion through an Arsenal competition for the Emirates Cup to decide on a tiebreaker if all the usual measures aren’t enough. (Points, GD, GS, H2H) I think the guy who said shots on target won. But someone had also mentioned corners. The premise being that corners are usually won through attacking play. This takes away the subjectivity of what is or is not a shot.

  27. I don’t see why people would object to Japan getting through on the basis of fair play, all other things being equal. Surely it is appropriate to reward people for virtuous behaviour where possible.

  28. as fate would have it, i got a speeding ticket this morning; my first since 1994. thanks, 7a.m.

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